Ep.17: Nicole Chambers – Texas Stock Exchange

Nicole: And then Austin is becoming a major tech hub globally. And so in this Texas triangle, I think I saw a statistic that said that Texas is now the seventh largest economy in the world, something like that.

Tarek: It absolutely, and then it's an anchor for the growth of this broader country, right? I mean, for us, the Southeast quadrant that we are a part of contributes to all the population growth in the U.S. It's also led GDP growth for us in the U.S. So this mentality of, again, being an advocate for companies is truly special, and that's what's framing us. So while we are homegrown in Texas, we have the beliefs of what's done very well in this region, and we think we'll serve companies just nationally and internationally. Texas has, for better or for worse, affinity in many different countries of what they think Texas is, whether we're wearing cowboy hats or playing for the Cowboys.

Nicole: It's its own brand.

Tarek: It's its own brand. And that in itself is the best marketing, right?

Nicole: Welcome to Yallstreet. Today, we speak with Nicole Chambers, the Global Managing Director of Listings for the Texas Stock Exchange. Nicole, would you like a cup of coffee?

Tarek: I would love a cup of coffee.

Nicole: Here you go. I got you this Dallas-themed coffee mug, and it's got a little gold ring around the bottom, just to honor.

Tarek: I mean, it matches.

Nicole: There you go.

Tarek: Amazing.

Nicole: Coffee cheers to you.

Tarek: Cheers. Thank you so much.

Nicole: I got the Dallas coffee cup because Dallas is now becoming the financial center of the world. Sure is. I read on your resume that you went to school at SMU. Are you, actually, are you from the Dallas area?

Tarek: No, but as they say, I got here as quick as I could.

Nicole: Where are you from?

Tarek: I grew up, born and raised in San Diego. I was looking at schools all around the country and thought USC was my next step in life, and then quickly was like, I think I wanna go somewhere completely different. I loved the idea of Greek life, of football, of a bigger school. I went to a really small private school for high school and thought just a bigger campus would be great. And then quickly thought, gosh, why stay in California when you can try something else? And turns out there's a USC in Dallas, and it's SMU, and it was the best decision I ever made, and never looked back.

Nicole: And, I mean, SMU is, you know, half a country away. It's a different type of school. How did you even hear about it? How did you land on SMU?

Tarek: Honestly, I have to give big credit to my college counselor. I mean, I was shocked when I heard that there was a school called Southern Methodist University. Immediately, I was like, well, I'm not Methodist, so I can't go. But really enjoyed the tour, and I felt right at home. My mom's family's from West Texas, so Texas wasn't new-new to me.

Nicole: So there was a connection there.

Tarek: Yeah, absolutely. And so I already had an affinity for the state and knew that I'd either have visitors come to me or I'd be going back home to surf, you know, and enjoy that type of a life, so.

Nicole: What did you study?

Tarek: Economics.

Nicole: Okay, and why was an 18-year-old girl from San Diego interested in economics?

Tarek: Honestly, it's because I didn't take attendance for those classes. But also, eventually, I learned to really enjoy it. I took sociology as a minor, so I thought maybe a public finance role would be kind of what I would go into. I liked the idea of understanding why things work, how they work, the trends and patterns, and then kind of marry that with the psychological piece of things and the broader human trend. Don't really do anything in either one of those right now, but I mean, certainly all the lingo and all that has helped me in my current career.

Nicole: So what was that journey? So you're at SMU, you're enjoying Texas, you bought a cowboy hat and cowboy boots, I'm sure, as everybody that moves to Texas does, and you're enjoying your time at SMU. Did you do internships? Where were you starting to look when you came out of school?

Tarek: So when I was at SMU, it was really, as most kids, the first time I was on my own and really had a chance to just think, who am I, what do I wanna do? And I had two very differing plans. One was that I wanted to be a restaurateur, and so I wanted to own and run restaurants.

Nicole: Why was that? Did you enjoy cooking?

Tarek: I love cooking, I love food, I love hospitality, that type of mentality.

Nicole: What kind of food do you like?

Tarek: Anything, you name it, I eat it, that's the problem. But ultimately, I did an internship at a restaurant group, Consilient Restaurant Groups here in Dallas, and Tristan Simon was the CEO at the time, and he put me to work during the day in marketing, and then at night, I'd work in the restaurant, Cuba Libre, if you remember that. And I quickly learned I don't ever wanna run a restaurant. It's incredibly difficult work.

Nicole: What was the most difficult thing about it? Because I grew up in the restaurant business as well, and I use the example with my team all the time about how difficult it is because of just the number of different variables, not knowing on a Friday, growing up in New England especially, because the weather was so unpredictable. Is it gonna be a blizzard? Is it gonna be beautiful weather? Is there gonna be a conference? Are we gonna have enough staff? Did we order enough food? Do we have too much food? The pace at which people are eating, I mean, it's a constant stream of variables and problem-solving required to make sure that everybody walks out of the restaurant happy. But I'm curious what your take was.

Tarek: All of that, plus, I think the schedule, you're just working 24-7, not afraid of work, but that work is exhausting work. The hardest job I had, because I did every job in the restaurant, was being a hostess, having to manage all those variables of how quickly people are eating, when the bill was there, were they gonna pay it and leave? Were they gonna stay and talk? Having terrible people ask how many more times, are we gonna be seated soon? I mean, it was invaluable, and I think everybody should work in the service industry at least once in their career.

Nicole: I totally agree, and my colleagues hate going to restaurants with me, because I sit down and I'm just pointing out everything that is driving me crazy about the service or the food or what have you, so that's interesting.

Tarek: And I think it also gives you a huge appreciation for the people that are serving you. And that are working there, and having patience and grace, and I really, it changed my outlook on just that entire industry, and kudos to those that can make it.

Nicole: Yeah, and the best in the industry, the best servers stand out.

Tarek: Yes.

Nicole: So, like shining stars, and when you go out, and for some people it's pretty rare, when I take my wife out on a date, we have small children, so it's tough to get out, so when you get really good service, it's meaningful and impactful, and I think it's just a good lesson in terms of customer experience and customer interaction. And you're right, it's a great starting point for anyone.

Tarek: So when I realized restauranting was not gonna be my thing, really had to kind of understand what's truly the right next step for me, and what did I like, and what did I wanna do, and I always gravitated towards sales, I always gravitated toward that type of marketing role, and after school was ending at SMU, I had actually lined up a job at a law firm, downtown Dallas, and was thrilled. I'd signed a lease with my two girlfriends, I was gonna be a independent woman, doing all the things in Dallas, and the day before graduation, I got a call from the marketing manager saying that my job had been eliminated, and they had closed that entire department. Oh gosh. And so, What year was this?

Nicole: This was 2006. Interesting, so this is still before the great financial crisis.

Tarek: Yeah, that law firm, first to go is marketing, and that was another lesson learned, right, was the first thing to go in a business is marketing, sadly. So after a scramble, I spent a year at a search firm, which I learned a lot about grit and sales, and was hired by NASDAQ, because my roommate worked for the chamber, and NASDAQ was looking to have somebody in Dallas, and work with companies in Texas, and she knew I was in sales, that's kind of all she knew I was doing, and so I really owe a lot to my friend Shannon for introducing me into this exchange culture.

Nicole: What were you learning about sales at that time? You're young, you're trying to make your way in the world, and you're looking at these sales opportunities, what were you learning?

Tarek: Well, you can't have any fear. The idea that, first of all, you're gonna get so many no's, you have to just get past that piece of it, and get so many no's to get one yes, when you get that yes, it's incredibly rewarding, but you learn why you got so many no's before that. I mean, I was at a point where I was opening up a Yellow Pages back when the Yellow Pages existed, and just calling, we specialized in law firm staffing, and went law firm by law firm, and tried to figure out what was gonna get me in, and ultimately, I owe a lot of how I've created my own sales tactics and professionalism today to that first job.

Nicole: Wow, that's boots on the ground, and I'm curious, when you started working for NASDAQ, what was that transition like for you, to go from the staffing agency now to a major business?

Tarek: You know, I look back at that, and I am so thankful I got this job in the exchange world through NASDAQ. So, I was 23 going on 24, could not run a car on my own at that time. I had to have my boss sign off on things. I worked from home for the first time, before working from home was something anybody did. I had to learn how to do that, and I also had to learn an entire industry that seemed daunting, right? Being a 20-something year old in the middle of Texas, learning about an exchange, and how they work with companies, whether it be services or listings. You're on an island already, but then having to really jump into a really complex business, and then marry that with the financial crisis that happened about three months after I started in 2008. It really, again, crash course, right? You really figure out who you are.

Nicole: What was that experience like? So, now you're in the middle of the great financial crisis while you're at NASDAQ.

Tarek: Well, I'm kind of wondering why everybody's so upset around me. I'm like, why? How can I just, how can I help?

Nicole: You're just grinning from ear to ear, because you're excited to be here.

Tarek: I'm just excited not to be in the yellow pages, and yet I have, obviously, the markets are crashing, and my colleagues that were on the listing side, because I was a junior associate at that time, really on the very bottom of the ladder, just trying to learn how to use probably my computer, and everybody else's hair on fire. And I did, I learned, again, a lot about, almost crisis management at that point, how to be a steady ship in a very tumultuous ocean, right? That was a big thing I learned early on, was how to manage conversations, how to help companies and folks that were truly going through the worst part of their business life. And again, not because I was doing it directly, but watching it indirectly.

Nicole: How many people did NASDAQ have in Texas?

Tarek: Oh, gosh, we, when I started in 08, we had, I think, three folks in Dallas, and two or three in Houston, and a few in Austin, and by the time I left, we were at 150 or so in Texas.

Nicole: Wow, that was a lot of growth. Does NASDAQ maintain a presence in every state, or just a few select states?

Tarek: You know, I think few select, there's definitely the idea that people like to do business with the people in their state, right? If you think about those key areas, whether it be Florida, or it's Texas, or Illinois, or California, that idea of kind of remote work, NASDAQ definitely thought was more important than being at the New York office.

Nicole: There was already a sense then that Texas was being featured prominently in the activities in the financial market, and, you know, they needed to be kind of, have boots on the ground to support that activity.

Tarek: I think boots on the ground important. I also think they realized, again, Texans want to talk to Texans. They don't really love the idea of a New Yorker coming in and trying to tell them what's going on. So, again, I think it was just responding to what wasn't working in the past, and definitely learning how to work with the customer in the region you're in.

Nicole: That really is something, I think, is somewhat unique to Texas, that Texans really identify as Texans more than anything else. That's, you don't get that same sense in, like, Michigan. Like, people in Michigan need to talk to people in Michigan, but in Texas, it really is that way. So, you start at the bottom of the ladder, and now you're kind of growing, and NASDAQ is growing, too. NASDAQ has really exploded over the last couple of decades, and you were with NASDAQ for 17 years, is that right?

Tarek: Yes, I was.

Nicole: And so, walk me through that journey.

Tarek: You know, I had, again, I guess that's what's the benefit of being young. You go in with blinders, and you just don't realize what a big pool you're in at that time. When I started, I was working in the corporate solutions business, which NASDAQ had just brought on to empower companies for investor relations and communications and governance. So, I was a product specialist, just somebody that did demos, right, and somebody that helped with contracting. And over time, I grew into being an account executive in that group, and then decided after a couple of years, the listings piece was very interesting, and I'd love to be able to understand how to maybe do both, right, on the sales side, but then also manage companies that are listed on the NASDAQ. And so, I was really grateful. Being remote, I had a lot of opportunity to grow my career, and certainly, made the full transition into listings the last five years of my time there. So, working with companies that were already listed and making sure they stay listed with NASDAQ, it's a dogfight, we'll definitely talk about that, between New York and NASDAQ, and now Texi, as well as make sure that we, NASDAQ was a good partner for them. Beyond that, working with companies that wanna go public, and helping them understand the choice that they have from an exchange, and moving companies from one exchange to the other. So, it was a big remit in a really fun region, and it was just a tremendous experience.

Nicole: So, there are a lot of people listening to this that aren't really going to understand necessarily the inner workings of an exchange, or how an exchange makes money, or what the KPIs are for an exchange. Can you get into the details of that a little bit? When you were sitting down in meetings at NASDAQ, what was your focus? Was it to recruit new businesses, to do IPOs on your exchange? Was it, obviously, there was support post-IPO. Walk us through that a little bit.

Tarek: You know, I will say, it's funny how much I didn't know about an exchange until I went to the Texas Stock Exchange. So, I'll say what I focused on, and then what I've learned, if that's helpful. So, when I was with NASDAQ, and trying to focus on keeping companies listed, or bring them to the market as an IPO, it was very much about what can we do from a marketing perspective, or how can we be supportive from services? And obviously, trading was a conversational topic, but it was much more about the company's business, and the celebration of that business, and that we could do it better than the New York Stock Exchange. And, you know, it was really fun, right? You're meeting with companies of all industries, and from energy to tech, to biotech, to a consumer brand. And so, every conversation was bespoke and unique, but it was very focused on helping them understand what we can do, or what NASDAQ could do, I should say, from kind of that marketing arm.

Nicole: And did you really believe that NASDAQ was superior to NASDAQ?

Tarek: Oh, absolutely, I did. Definitely, you know, and I grew up with NASDAQ, so I absolutely did. It's funny enough now, I work with a lot of my competitors that I sold against at the New York Stock Exchange, and come to find out they're not terrible people, you know? But what's funny about it for me is coming to the Texas Stock Exchange, I did not realize how an exchange truly worked for issuers, or really how they don't work for issuers, is kind of what I've come to learn.

Nicole: So can you explain how an exchange works?

Tarek: Yes, you know, of course, they are there to bring the conduit to the public markets, right? And what I think is not understood, or well understood, by whether it's a CEO, or a board, or even maybe an IRO, an Investor Relations Officer, is, you know, the exchange really is only there in two seconds a day as a total requirement. So they are required to open a stock and close a stock. And that is, you know, really the only true obligation that an exchange has. Obviously, there is intraday volume, but we have seen most companies, most stocks trade away from their home exchange more than ever before. So as an example, you know, Tesla, they trade 80% away and off of NASDAQ. So only 20% of their volume is traded on NASDAQ, and that comes at the open and close. At that same time, because NASDAQ in New York have to open those stocks, they make the price whatever they want, right? It's a monopolistic pricing schedule. They make a ton of money off of these companies at the open and close. And that's a business model. I mean, that's how it should work, right? But I think companies don't truly recognize that they are paying for an exchange that is making a lot of money off of them with what is the ROI on that, when I'm also not even being traded on that exchange. And what is the quality of life, so to speak, as a company that I'm getting out of all of that? And I think what the ultimate story line is, is companies have more power than they think. And I think understanding that as a corporate CEO, corporate CFO, an ETP, you have the opportunity to really push back and say, what am I getting? Because you're getting a lot of from me. And I want to understand truly what quality of trading am I getting? What is the relationship? What is the advocacy? How can I make sure that you are doing as much for me as I am for you?

Nicole: So I don't want to jump too far ahead to the Texas Stock Exchange, but I'm really curious what the value proposition is of the Texas Stock Exchange, what that message is from you to companies looking to IPO.

Tarek: Yes, I mean, we have really had a chance to think about what makes sense. And the way we've done that is by actually talking to corporates. So I left NASDAQ last August and started at Texian in September before, well before a form one was even filed and before the exchanges even open. And my role as the corporate listings team is to really understand what's working, but more importantly, what's not working. Why is this such a difficult process being public and what's keeping you from going public? So we've had the opportunity to speak to companies of all sizes and all industries to really refine what Texy's ethos should be. And that is, we want to be incredibly pro-business and get out of the way for companies. We do not believe that an exchange should be a regulator. We believe that these companies know how to run their business better than anybody else. The exchange is the conduit, as I mentioned, to the public markets. The role should be that an exchange like the Texas Stock Exchange works on behalf of businesses to make business better for you at whatever market you're in.

Nicole: What does that mean to be a regulator? How do you see specifically exchanges getting in the way of business?

Tarek: It is becoming incredibly costly to be public. It is a lot of risk. There is a ton of time spent. If you speak to any public finance, CEO, CFO, IRO, VP, they've spent at a minimum probably three full months a year just focused on being public. So that's three months of the year that they're not focused on running that business. And you can't point fingers all at one area, right? There's many things that have happened over the course of the last several decades, whether it's increased regulation from the SEC or from federal or state requirements or even the industry that you're in, right? But also exchanges can create their own additional rules and disclosures above and beyond what's already required. So over the course of the last several years, it's been very unpredictable year over year what the exchanges, both New York and NASDAQ, would add or change that would only increase the cost and time that you have to spend reporting to yet another entity.

Nicole: And what we've seen over the last, call it two decades, maybe more than that, is an entrepreneur will start a company. That company will grow to be, let's say, $500 million in value. And historically, maybe in the 1980s, that company would go public so that the founder could recoup some liquidity and exit the business. Today, it seems as though companies in that space are pivoting towards private equity, that private equity is the appropriate exit. Because as you say, they can avoid all of the challenges of listing your company on an exchange and all of the costs associated with it and the hassle and the exposure, et cetera. Is this something that you're looking to address with the stock exchange, with the Texas Stock Exchange, to try to make it palatable for these smaller companies to have at least an alternative versus private equity?

Tarek: Absolutely. It is absolutely a requirement for us to address that. We are at an all-time low of companies that are public today. So since the 90s, we've seen a decrease in 45% of companies that are public. With that, obviously the IPO market has been unpredictable, but at a really low point. And by the time they do go public, as we've talked about, they're a very large company. So two problems. The company doesn't feel like they have a choice. They have to take the private money, which then ultimately they can lose a significant amount of control in something that they've built. But then the retail investor has been boxed out. We see this as an opportunity to alleviate both. When Amazon or Google went public, somebody like you and I could invest and obviously change our lives if that was an early investment for us. Now, by the time they go public at 20 billion or 50 billion or gosh, even if SpaceX went public, that's a very difficult investment for a normal retail investor. So we want to allow for retail to get more involved in the market, but then at the same time, allow these small to mid-cap to largest size companies go public maybe at 500 million versus at 10 billion. And we're going to do that by A, reducing the cost, hopefully of being a public company through reducing regulation. And we've recently passed a capital markets package in the Texas legislature that happy to talk about how that helps companies reduce costs immediately. But we've also want to do that same thing with the new SEC commissioner and helping them understand what's not working that is prohibiting companies from going public at that stage in life.

Nicole: Talk about that capital markets legislation. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Tarek: We were incredibly proud to support. There were two big bills that were passed in the recent session, which would allow companies that are either headquartered in Texas or incorporated in Texas, because the last piece of this Texas miracle is to give companies an alternative to Delaware and incorporate elsewhere. So this incorporation is going to become more and more apparent as an opportunity for companies, either newly formed companies or move their registration. But if they're headquartered or incorporated and then listed on a Texas-based exchange, they have the opportunity to have two major things occur. Number one, a shareholder proposal. They can only be put forward if somebody owns at least 3% of the stock for six months and has solicited 2 3rds of the shareholder base. So that immediately eliminates a lot of time and noise and money that executives and boards spend during proxy season. The second piece of it is codifying the business judgment rule. That really is going to be what we compete with Delaware on. And that essentially removes directors and officers from this huge amount of liability around lawsuits. So obviously barring intentional misconduct or intentional fraud, there is immediately the ability to lower your DNO insurance by having this wave of jury trial, by restricting documents. So we aren't even open for business and have been very proud to support the Texas leadership and broader ecosystem in providing this opportunity to companies that already can take advantage of it.

Nicole: So I'm curious, it seems like there are two paths on the listing side. One is new listings.

Tarek: Yep.

Nicole: And I wanna hear about what that process looks like for a company who wants to list. But then the other is potentially recruiting companies from other exchanges. And I'd like to understand what that process would be like. So can you talk about both of those? Sure.

Tarek: So as we think about it, our initial opportunity set comes from companies already listed in the current and traded in the current world. So New York, NASDAQ, and then foreign issuers. And so for us, we look at this as an opportunity to talk to companies that have been underrepresented, don't feel they have a voice, but also frustrated with the maybe, again, continued overreach that they felt and the opportunity for them to have another choice. Again, the hardest part for us as a new insurance, other than having to get people comfortable with what an exchange does, is help companies and executives understand truly that their stock and liquidity is incredibly mobile. It does not matter where you truly are listed at this point in time to get that same liquidity. Moving that aside, who do you wanna partner with? How do you wanna see somebody work for you and with you? And I think that's the conversation we're having, and it's been very well received, as you could imagine. It's a kind of a breath of fresh air for, again, these companies from that small to mid-cap range, as we talked about, but also companies that are just tired of having to spend hundreds and millions of dollars a year on things that don't necessarily make sense.

Nicole: And when you have these conversations, are you also introducing the idea of potentially reincorporating in Texas as well? So not only listing on the Texas Stock Exchange, but also reincorporating?

Tarek: We, of course, are happy to advocate for that. We think that's just a benefit for- Just a bonus. Companies, absolutely. We certainly aren't going to require that, nor make it that a lot of our time, but we do think that Delaware hasn't been challenged, and we have seen, obviously, some difficult things happen in the recent court cases out of Delaware that, again, companies now have the opportunity to say, I have a choice. And Texas is incredibly proudly business-friendly, and this kind of business court opportunity for us is that last cornerstone in all of that.

Nicole: So if I'm a company, and let's say I'm sub-1 billion in value, 500 million, or even 250 million, and you're sitting across the table from me, what is the sales pitch? What is the value proposition of listing on the exchange versus going the private equity route?

Tarek: We are really excited to offer competition to a market that has not had competition in quite a while. And companies, as you're mentioning, haven't had a real choice in a public exit, just, again, as the costs have increased. And so for us, we are really looking to bring predictability back to an unpredictable experience. We do not want to enforce any ideological beliefs on companies. We want to enforce rules across the entire board that makes sense for companies of all sizes and shapes and forms. So for us, this is an opportunity to also clean up the markets a bit. If you think about it, there are a lot of companies listed today that would not qualify to list on the Texas Stock Exchange. So for us, this is a chance to signal to the market that anybody that lists with us from an IPO perspective or moving a primary listing, this is a quality company that has a long-term vision and value behind it. And so listing on the Texas Stock Exchange is exactly that signal with the predictability and the accessibility. This is not an exclusionary place, Texas. This is not a place that people feel like they can't be approached. We see this as a chance to change that. If you're not from Wall Street, people don't feel the opportunity they can talk to those folks very easily. Or how do I get in that room with somebody? And being in Texas and being at the Texas Stock Exchange, we want to change that vision for folks to give them the chance to be part of the dialogue and part of the change that's happening in the capital markets every single day. So for the Texas Stock Exchange value pitch specifically, it's predictability, it's accessibility to a great market. It is giving companies a chance to be their best selves while we advocate for them and get out of the way. So it truly is a very pure approach to exchange world and capitalism for that matter.

Nicole: What is your marketing team doing to help these companies?

Tarek: Yes, marketing is a big part of it, right? We are very excited. I think we have such a unique set of opportunities in front of us. First and foremost, as the center of gravity has shifted to Texas from a financial perspective, there are so many eyes and ears on what's happening in the state of Texas, whether you are based here or you list here.

Nicole: Yeah, I just saw actually a statistic that said that there are more financial people in Texas than there are in New York now for the first time. So what is happening actually with that?

Tarek: Yes, so between that and one in 10 public companies based in the state and 52 of the Fortune 500, the stats are in our favor. There has been a push away from New York and New Jersey and Illinois and Delaware for that matter, and into Texas because of this incredible opportunity that started with Governor Perry and Governor Abbott to really solidify Texas as a place that you can do business and your regulation and your state is not gonna get in your way. And so for us, Dallas has become that center stage of the financial world, the global financial center that's been formed here and forming every day. We'll see Goldman Sachs move 8,000 to 11,000 employees here. I think JPMorgan has more folks here than in New York, as you said, and the opportunity to have more eyes on what companies are doing is gonna be better here than anywhere else.

Nicole: It's really unique because in Texas you have Dallas, which is a major financial hub. You have Houston, which has both the port and all of the commodities trade, especially oil and gas. And then Austin is becoming a major tech hub globally. And so in this Texas triangle, I think I saw a statistic that said that Texas is now the seventh largest economy in the world, something like that.

Tarek: It absolutely, and then it's an anchor for the growth of this broader country, right? I mean, for us, the Southeast quadrant that we are a part of contributes to all the population growth in the U.S. It's also led GDP growth for us in the U.S. So this mentality of, again, being an advocate for companies is truly special, and that's what's framing us. So while we are homegrown in Texas, we have the beliefs of what's done very well in this region, and we think we'll serve companies just nationally and internationally. Texas has, for better or for worse, affinity in many different countries of what they think Texas is, whether we're wearing cowboy hats or playing for the Cowboys.

Nicole: It's its own brand.

Tarek: It's its own brand, and that in itself is the best marketing, right? So we have companies and folks reaching out from all around the world asking what we're doing and why we're doing it and how we can make their business even stronger by accessing the U.S. markets.

Nicole: That's something that I think has been pretty unique. I've obviously been following the Texas Stock Exchange and all of the press, and it seems like there's a bias towards promoting Texas even before promoting the exchange itself because of all of the attributes and values of the state in doing business here. Not to say that there aren't a million different advantages as you've articulated here today with the exchange itself, but I find this in my own business. I often say that we're Texas Precious Metals, but we don't sell the precious metals. We sell the Texas. We're selling an experience. We're selling our company integrity, our values, et cetera, and I think more and more people are beginning to identify with the virtues of that, so very interesting. Are there other specific things that you're working on? I know that you're building a new building and a podcast studio and everything. What else do you do for your companies?

Tarek: We are very excited. We will announce by the end of 2025 where our official Texas Market Center will be based, and it will be, of course, in Dallas, but as we think about which location will serve the community best, we will have state-of-the-art event center and bell. I will say some people are arguing for a cannon. We've heard it all.

Nicole: I like it. I like the cannon.

Tarek: A cannon has become a top favorite. We've also heard, can they ride a bull or shoot a gun? I mean, you name it, we've heard it. We'll take all into consideration, but make, of course, the best choice possible.

Nicole: I like the rifle shot.

Tarek: Yeah, it seems like a big liability, but we could consider it. So not only will it have that bell that happens twice a day and is, of course, televised, we will have great studio space, place for companies to host analyst days or boardrooms, and also a Texas business museum. So we'll show everything from, absolutely, the spindle top to the gigafactory. So much has happened in this state that has created our broader global economy, and we are excited to highlight all those great things and be able to showcase each invention or each business that has moved this place a step forward.

Nicole: Do you think that there's gonna be, is there gonna be an LED screen on the outside?

Tarek: We're thinking about the best way to do that. As you can imagine, it's a very unique space then, right? So it's either a building that we need to retrofit or a building that hasn't been built yet. But yes, I mean, coming from an exchange that had the power of the tower, I am absolutely advocating for that type of a visibility aspect.

Nicole: I think we need to touch a little bit on ETFs as well, because, I mean, ETFs have just completely exploded over the last decade. And how are ETFs impacting the business models of exchanges? It seems as though there's almost an unlimited supply of ETFs, though there are not an unlimited supply of IPOs. So talk us through that a little bit.

Tarek: I will say, as an aside, my 12-year-old son did ask if he could start an ETF.

Nicole: Absolutely.

Tarek: Of course, I was like, well, yeah, today, what is it? And he's like, all the soccer teams in the US. So true point, everybody can start an ETF, which is fantastic. And I think we've seen that the potential growth is unlimited. By 2030, it'll be north of $25 trillion industry. So it is ripe for another option for these listings of ETPs. We have hired the most amazing ETP leadership. So between SIBO, NYSE, and NASDAQ, we have one from each that have ran each of those teams. And so we're really excited to look at how can we start to think about it a bit differently? Still offering incredibly great access and quality, but for us, it's a huge part of our business and value prop. And you will see ETPs list before you even see a corporate list, because that will be our entrance into bringing on companies and products to list with us. In 2026.

Nicole: You talked about some of your team members and the experience and the background. Can you maybe dive into that a little bit more? And how has the exchange looked at building this team together to ensure that it's the most qualified and the best to serve all these companies?

Tarek: You know, when I started getting pinged about this job opportunity last year, first of all, I thought it was spam. So I immediately was like, unsubscribe. But then I quickly, quickly realized, no, this is something I need to pay attention to. And one of the things that truly sold me, other than the fact that this is obviously a huge opportunity to create something that we all saw what wasn't working and make it as great as possible. But the folks that have joined this team, we have 700 years of combined leadership and exchanges amongst the folks that have been hired. Veterans of industry, titans of technology, you name it. It has been unreal to see who has been brought on by Jim Lee, our CEO and our board. We have, I mean, so to say, if I can, a dream team of technology, exchange, sales, leadership team that you could ever imagine. And so it is a testament to folks that could have stayed and continue doing what they were doing and doing it incredibly well. But we all saw a chance to build something and create something that we think can be meaningful change in the capital markets. And so I will say outside of this great, fun podcast that I'm doing and marketing, but working with these folks has been just a huge highlight of my career.

Nicole: So, I mean, internally, do you have some KPIs that you're looking to hit? You're looking to launch, I think around the March timeframe of 2026. What does winning look like for you over the next, say year to five years?

Tarek: We have some immediate milestones, as you said. So we are hopeful for SEC approval in Q3 of this year. And then to your point, we will launch our purpose-built world-class trading technology in Q1 of 2026. And then we will launch ETFs or ETPs and then corporate listings in Q2, Q3 of 26. So there are absolutely some immediate milestones for us to meet. But the good news is we have a really long runway. We have our investors that are looking at this as a 20, 30, 40, 50 year plan. We wanna get this right. And so for us, our meaningful changes are, can we significantly show reduced costs in being public through change in regulation or state laws or federal laws? Can we increase companies going public sooner? Can we really revitalize these public markets? And have people excited to wanna meet with an exchange? I can't tell you the amount of times I'd meet with companies, CEOs, and they were not happy to see me coming. They were thrilled to see me leave. So, and it's really not because of, hopefully not because of me, but more because of what the public markets represented, which was time, money, sweat, probably some tears. And so we're really hopeful to change that mentality.

Nicole: What do you see as the biggest obstacles?

Tarek: Being new is of course an obstacle, especially to a duopoly that's been around for 200 and some odd years and 50 some odd years. We're thrilled that they finally found Texas. We're thrilled to be here and we welcome the competition, but being new is just an obstacle. I think the second obstacle is again, educating corporates and ETP issuers on how markets truly work and the power that they hold in making decisions and making changes. So for us, it's really about education, of course, branding, any business has that challenge, but really it's just gonna be time. Nothing is going to be overnight in changing the public markets and making that a more attractive option. But we do think that give us a couple years and it's gonna have changed, really changed the trajectory of the public markets in the US.

Nicole: So if someone's looking to launch an ETP or looking to take their company public, how would they get ahold of you? Would they just go to the website and put in a contact form? Like what is the path?

Tarek: I mean, I'll give you my home address right now if you need it. No, absolutely. I think that is a huge part of it is we are here for you. And I mean that truly wholeheartedly and sincerely. So we have a team based here in Dallas. We have folks that are based in New York, but absolutely you will talk, call me, email me, call Rob Morocco, call my colleagues. We are absolutely here. Our CEO Jim is incredibly eager to speak with companies. So he's probably not gonna be thrilled that I offered him up, but that's the mentality we have. This is not a put a name into a website. We'll hopefully get back to you in 48 to 79 days, right? Like this is, we wanna talk to you today. And we are really happy to hear you, listen to you and incorporate that into what we're building.

Nicole: So when you look back on your 20 year career now, what are some lessons learned for you? Just personally, professionally, what are some, for those listening, any young men and women that are looking to break into the working world are starved for leadership information. What would you share with them?

Tarek: I would even take it back further. I mean, it's weird as you think about where you are today and maybe what even got you here. Growing up in the 90s, my father and grandfather were both venture capitalists in San Diego. Both of them, the true like American story came from nothing built a huge business allowed for their families to want for nothing. So that idea and watching them work so hard, but then also celebrate their work, right? I feel like my dad took a company public. It felt like every week, right? Yeah, you just, you name it. I'm like, what's going on in New York? What are you doing there? But it was exciting. And being able to see the fruits of their labor come to fruition was something I remember that feeling just being a kid. And then fast forward, I'm in this space, and watching companies either do that or try to do that or unable to do that. So I would say the leadership I have is really being, you're here for the long haul. This is not, if you're here for a quick hit, this is not the business to be in. This is truly a long game. You wanna develop relationships. That's what matters. Your reputation matters. That's the biggest leadership and or business advice I can give is you can't take anything else with you but your reputation. So being able to be somebody that is sincere, does their follow-up that is available, that to me has been the biggest lesson. I've learned that at my time, whether I was at my search firm or at NASDAQ. You think about the folks that I now work with, everybody is a hard worker. They're a doer. There's nobody that would say to do something that can't do it themselves. So it's all very probably generic and maybe on your next coffee mug that you give somebody. But for me, that's been my biggest lesson is to be authentically yourself, but also be there.

Nicole: Wonderful, what is the domain for the Texas Stock Exchange?

Tarek: www.txse.com. And you are able to, of course, submit any sort of inquiries through our site. And you can find me on LinkedIn and anybody else at the Texas Stock Exchange. You can hunt us down however you want.

Nicole: Nicole, thank you so much for joining us on Y'all Street. Don't mess with Texas.

Tarek: Thank you so much, Tarik.