Ep. 4: David Henrie – Actor & Entrepreneur

David: I'll tell you a couple of stories. When I was a teenager, I realized the power of story when I was in another country and I met this kid and this kid was like, hey, I have a really, I have a bad family. And your show showed me that families can stick together. And I thought I never wanted a family until I saw your show. And your show made me realize that one day I can have a family that can stick together. Thank you for that.

Tarek: Welcome to Yallstreet. Today I speak with David Henry, the star of Disney's The Wizards of Waverly Place franchise and the director of the recent Mel Gibson film, Monster's Summer. David, a cup of coffee?

David: Tarek, I would love a cup of coffee. There's one thing I want right now. It's a cup of coffee.

Tarek: Well, there you go. And I got you a special coffee mug. This is the director's coffee mug.

David: Oh, very good.

Tarek: Now that you're a big time director.

David: Oh, thank you, buddy. I appreciate it.

Tarek: You know, I'm usually the guy that's always in the blazer and the shirt. I dressed down today. I was thinking, you know, David's going to roll in, be a little bit more relaxed.

David: I think it's so funny. I literally, I saw one of his podcasts and I go, oh, he was wearing a blazer, he was wearing a sport jacket. I got to put on a sport jacket. So like I came prepared today and we were both accommodated.

Tarek: See, we're considerate. We're considerate.

David: Considerate people here at Yallstreet.

Tarek: Wizards of Waverly Place.

David: Yes.

Tarek: That was your show. And now we're going Wizards Beyond Waverly Place.

David: Yes.

Tarek: How did that come about? I'm interested.

David: You know, my, um, so, so I grew up on the show, Wizards of Waverly Place, right? Which was, uh, probably one of Disney Channel's most successful shows they ever had. It was the, I think still the only sitcom that's ever won Emmys for them. And it really launched my career and, and, and got me to a really good place. And, you know, I was a teenager at the time. And then after that, just life changed. I had a bit of an existential crisis, a new path emerged. Stop right there though.

Tarek: So you're on this hit show.

David: Yeah.

Tarek: On Disney.

David: Yeah.

Tarek: What, what is life like for you? So you're filming, you're going out, you want to go get a cup of coffee. You're getting swarmed by teenagers, by fans of the show. Like what, what's it, what's that whole experience like? Selena Gomez is on the show. She's, she's a rocket ship herself. Like what's, what's that whole experience like?

David: You know, it's looking back on it. It's, it does feel like a different time. It literally was a different time, but this was right before streaming kind of kind of hit the, hit the market and social media. It was right before all that Twitter had just come out. So this was a time where it Disney channel and celebrity was much bigger and different than it, than it is now. It was probably the, the last moment of a more traditional form of celebrity and actor. And especially in the context of Disney and Disney channel. So it was at its height, like everywhere I'd go all over the world, even still to this day there, you know, I'm meeting lots of people and lots of people are coming up, taking pictures and it's a, it's a different world. I talk about that with our current cast on the reboot that I'm producing right now and acting in there. Like, what's it going to be like when the show comes out? And I'm like, you know, I, it's, it's, it's just different. It's a different time. You know, thanks be to God. It was massively successful. In fact, we set the record for Disney channel for their highest premiere on Disney plus ever. So it was a massive hit for them, but times are different. You know, kids are on YouTube. Kids are following social media influencers. They're, they're the new celebrity, you know, traditional actors and celebrities. It's, it's just different. So yeah, the kids in our new show, they're definitely going to get recognized places and they're definitely going to get to have their moment, but it's not like it was then, then it was, it was just a different, a different time, you know? Yeah.

Tarek: You notice the, the level of accessibility to people is totally different than it was back in like the nineties, early two thousands, where it was all like us weekly, or people magazine, or they would have shows on television just dedicated to tracking what, you know, celebrities were doing.

David: But yes.

Tarek: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's interesting to me how now you're kind of on a, on a, on the other side of that celebrity coaching some of the younger up and comers. And what are you telling them? What do you, what are you, do you, do you give them any, any advice on how to handle it or things to think about? Like what, what are those conversations like?

David: We talk about it a lot. Like, so, so this new show, basically I'm the dad, I have a wife, we have children, we love our family. And, and I was partially responsible with casting the next generation of kid actors who are going to come up to be the next big things. Right. And I tell them a lot of lessons. I wish that I learned when I was, when I was their age, for instance, right now we're in between season one, season two, right. And we're waiting on a season two order. And for an actor, that's a big deal. That's like, I'm trying to think, think of a comparison in another business sector, but it's, you don't necessarily know you're getting a second season. So every season you make a show, you don't know if you're getting picked up. You never really know. So you're kind of every season fighting for your life. And it might be over, you know, and when I was younger, that was really stressful. And I thought if my show didn't get picked up, something's wrong with me. Like I, I, I didn't do a good enough job or it's, I feel like a failure, you know? So right now we're in that same moment and I'm looking at these kids and I'm like, I want to tell them things that I wish that I heard. So I talk to them all the time about where value and identity and what's important. So I tell the kids like, Hey, if you're feeling stressed about this, just know that this is not where your value resides based on a season two, based on approval from others. And, and if you are feeling stressed about this, then let that be a pause for reflection because you need to think about what is, what is really important to me. And ultimately that comes from your relationship with God. And, you know, for me personally, that's exactly where it comes from. I know no matter what, something comes, something goes, that doesn't bother me anymore because I go, you know what? As long as my relationship with him is okay and I'm there, I'm secure.

Tarek: And, uh, you use that word identity, which I think is such a powerful word. And when you're young, you're a child. Um, and, and you go through sort of the traditional elementary school and high school struggling with your identity is, you know, what everybody goes through. You're going through puberty. Who am I? What do I value? What do I like? What do I dislike? When you're a child actor and you grow up on set and you are famous in the public eye from a very early age, a lot of that identity is in some ways sort of taken from you and imposed upon you from the outside in. And I'm curious, did you experience that as, as you were kind of coming up as a child actor? And maybe you can talk a little bit about, I think sort of the stigmas of being a child actor in Hollywood and the challenges cause a lot of them end up on drugs and kind of go through some really difficult times.

David: Totally, totally. Yeah. As an actor especially your job is to be something you're not. So when you're trying to find your identity and build some foundation by what you can stand on, it's kind of a direct conflict with what you're doing. So doing that as a teenager, as a young person, yeah, it's, it's tough. There's a lot of turmoil there and your business is inherently built as an actor, at least is inherently built on, on approval of others and what other people think. So your self esteem, it's just the nature of the beast is based on what other people think and like your identity is only worth something. If other people are going, good job, you're getting the job. Yes, you got the second season, all of that.

Tarek: So it reminds me of that, you know, I am DB when you go and you see the star meter, you know, is the star meter going up or is it going down?

David: And you know, that's where you're at in your life. That's where you're at in your career.

Tarek: You're concerned about what were you, how you're valued in the overall system.

David: Yeah, I was there as a kid actor. If it wasn't, if it wasn't a better score, I was like, Oh no, my career is failing. It's like, no, like I tried to tell the kids and I tried to tell the parents on our show and any other kids that I meet all over the world, like you're, you're, your value will never be linked to other people's eyes. It has to be based on something more internal. You need to find a confidence in yourself that's independent of what other people think. So how did you get into acting and when did you start? I was, so I was young and I, my parents probably gave me the best shot possible at having like a healthy upbringing. That didn't involve later turning to drugs or turning to substance abuse issues or any of that because my parents treated me like you treat a kid in a sport. They were very supportive. They didn't need me. They didn't need to my money. They didn't need any of that.

Tarek: It was like living vicariously through you.

David: No, in fact it was almost the opposite. My dad would be like, second, you're done with this thing. We're out of LA dude. I want to get back to Arizona. I'm like back to normal life. Like the second you're done, that is very much your dad. Very much. So I tell that to a lot of parents too, as I go, Hey, like if you're, if you're like quitting your job, if you're like changing your life, if you're sacrificing this much for your kid, be very cautious of that because that could create an undue pressure on a child where his psychology, what he's built for is not to be in these high pressure, high stakes situations. Kids are meant to be wild and free and learning nature, learning through nature, learning through interaction. They're not meant to be with lawyers and agents and managers and under the spotlight and all these things. So it's like, if your kid doesn't like it like a sport, which is how I liked it, like theater, it was, it was fun for me. Like I loved performing. Um, it's a, then then you've got to question your motive. So I'm always cautioning parents like you shouldn't take any of your kids money. And if you need to, that's going to create a big problem because that kid's going to get older. He's going to want to know where it went. It's an awkward dynamic.

Tarek: How common is that?

David: Very common. Very common. Yeah. A lot of these families are leaving a situation or breaking a situation to get to LA. They need the kid to work. The kid's paying for the apartment. And, and, and the mom's gone, we need this, you know, like, and now you're the breadwinner and now you're the breadwinner. You're a kid. You know, that, that's a very terrible dynamic. What of course kids are going to end up on drugs later in life. They had no childhood. They had this, this terribly pressure filled situation that can only express itself in, in substance abuse later on or some sort of abuse later on. The kid was stunted. Literally. Like I met so many actors in their forties. I'm like, you're still kids inside. Like you're, you, you never grew up. So I was fortunate enough to have that proper parental dynamic where I always felt like my dad's kid and my mom, I was never the breadwinner. So I tell parents that all the time. It's like, if you want to get your kid into acting, like you stay the parent. Now this is a sport.

Tarek: The dynamic on on wizards, it seemed like the cast was super close. Did you find in that support structure, you know, a lot of help in kind of navigating through the celebrity of being on that show?

David: Yes. And all of us, yeah, we did feel like family. And I think a lot of the people on set did a good job of making us feel like kids while we were acting. Cause it's a fine line on one hand, you need to make your day. Like there's a certain professionalism you have to have because lots of money is being spent and you need to get what you need to get. But on the other hand, they are kids, you know, we are young people and they need to be treated a certain way. So let them laugh a little bit, let them have fun, let them goof off for a couple seconds. Like it's a fine line with your producers and directors and people who are on set working with children. Sure. And they actually did a great job with that. And we, we had a familial culture and I, I was the oldest on the show and I really embraced that role of like big brother. And I came from a big Italian family. So to me, I was always like, just trying to put all, put everyone under my wings and, you know, have that familial atmosphere. And I think we had that. And it was part of the reason the show was such a success. Justin, what are you doing still up? It's late. I stayed up because I owe you something. I found it in Washington square park. A two headed dog had it. Pretty sure he didn't start out that way.

Tarek: Thank you. About your wand.

David: I, uh, I'm just about to fix it. And I owe you something else. Thank you for saving me.

Tarek: And that in some ways is actually led to this reboot, right? Your relationship with Selena has been tight over the years. And I imagine as you know, her rocket ship has exploded that having you as a, as a friend and, and, uh, just a sounding board has probably helped. And, you know, how, so how did the, how did the second show come to, because I know she's involved with that.

David: Yeah. You know, honestly, it was exactly what you said. Like she was, she lived right next to me in California and you know, my wife and I were just the couple that needed nothing from her. You know, she, she, she's such a successful person. She's like the most followed woman in the world. Everyone wants something from her and her and I have so much history and you know, she, she was at my wedding and she's been, you know, aunt Selena to my daughter. Like she just knows that with us, like there's no angle, you know, there's no, there's no any of that. Like never asked her for a thing. So we would just be sitting around having dinner and we loved the show. So we'd be pulling up episodes, drinking wine, joking about where our characters would be. And at a certain point, you know, after years of this, I was like, I, you know, I got my second and third kid on the way. I forget if it was second or third, but like, I was like, I'm way older. We're way older. Like I think we got to show Selena. We keep talking about this. Like I think we got something and she was like, yes, that's my characters here. Your characters, they're like, let's put it together. And so we just started having some meetings and, and it took a couple of years of development, but yeah, it just came about completely naturally.

Tarek: So walk through the mechanics of that. So now you have an idea. You guys are super excited about it. You're revisiting, you know, the, you know, the, the original universe that you kind of grew up in and, and then what? So you ring somebody at Disney and say, Hey, we want to sit down and pitch an idea. How does that all come about?

David: Yeah. So it's a development process before production process and the development process is usually a very long time, but it starts with a phone call. It starts with calling up an executive, an old, an old friend of mine, a guy named Gary Marsh, incredibly talented. They should build a statue of him at Disney. He's made so many people's careers from Hannah Montana to Selena Greenlight, the original show, you name it, just a litany of shows. So he was still at the network at the time and I just called him and said, Hey Gary, I got an idea. What do you think? And he said, let's set up a time. I'd love to hear more about it. So we formalized a pitch, which took months of work. We walked in there and we pitched it and it wasn't right for them at the time. They said, you know what, we love it, but let's, let's keep in touch. Time's not right for something like this. So two years went by where, you know, you work so hard as a producer, as someone in development in Hollywood, now being on the other side of the camera. And I know we're going to, we're going to talk more about that, but there's so much time spent on developing things that go nowhere. You're not being paid for it. It's just time that you believe in, in a future vision and a future concept. And you know, so years went by, literally we pitched it. We spent a lot of time working on it, months working on it. They say, you know what, time's not right. A year later I checked back in, no, time's still not right. And then I see Gary has a big change. He's, he, you know, finished his career at Disney. I think he was there for decades and he's now producing with them. And another year went by and I called Gary and I said, Hey, I know you're not with the channel anymore, but like, I know you got friends there. Is there, do you think the time's good now? And he goes, actually I was just in a meeting and yeah, I think the time could be good. Let's go back in there.

Tarek: Interesting.

David: So we go back in pitch and they go, yes, the time's right. Let's go into development and let's find writers. So then you find writers and the writers have to write a pilot. So it's still not like you're green, late to go.

Tarek: were these the same writers that were working on the original show or just completely different?

David: Completely different. You know, one of the things that Disney made clear that they wanted early on was a whole new audience, but at the same time, a big warm hug to the original show. So the writers that we found, they grew up on watching the show with their kids. So they were huge fans of the original show. They knew the original show very well and their kids loved the original show. So they were like the perfect guys to create something completely new, but at the same time, give a big warm hug to that original fan who's going to be coming back watching for nostalgia purposes. So we work with them. We develop an idea for a pilot. They write the pilot, the pilot goes through iteration. So there's that's a six month process. The writer's strike happens. We're sitting waiting for another six months, not knowing what's going on. At that point we had just casted our lead girl and then everything paused, everything stopped.

Tarek: And the writer's strike was when, right around what time?

David: That was summer of 2023. Something like that.

Tarek: It's interesting because Hollywood had these like back-to-back big blows between COVID and the writer's strike and it was starts and stops, starts and stops, et cetera.

David: That was a terrible time, terrible time in the industry. So many friends just like outright quit. The industry is already shrinking. And then these two big blows, just like, it was awful. So we pause on that, that finishes, we re-engage, you know, a few more months now of developing. Then you get the green light for the series, right? So then you green light the series, you know, you're shooting X amount of episodes. I think it was 10 or 11 and you got to prove yourself there. And then you get what's called the back nine. If you do a good job, which we did. So it's, it's a lot. I went into a little more detail than normal just to show you that this, this Hollywood process is a lot. It's very involved. There's lots of people voting along the way. So it's a lot more than just, I'm going to go make a show and, Oh, I got a great idea and Oh, I'm making the show and life is good. It's like, you're pulling your hair out every step of the way, trying to keep everyone on board and rowing in the right direction. Cause there's like hundreds of people working on this at all times. And a lot of these people have very important opinions.

Tarek: So in the first go round, you actually were not just acting. You started getting into the writing of some of the episodes with wizards. So I'm curious how that came about.

David: And then I'm curious about what has changed with this iteration. Are you more actively involved in the production aspects and the management of, of the episodes? Yeah. For me, the I always wanted to do more than, than just act. I always wanted to understand how the sausage was made for lack of better words. When I was on set as a, as a kid actor, I'd always be asked asking questions like, why is the camera there? And what lens is that?

Tarek: Why is that? Do you think, why, what is that curiosity?

David: No, I just want it to know, like, why is the camera there and not there? And why is that one there? Oh, it's a, you have to establish, you know, your geography. So that way these cuts work and, Oh, okay. And if you put it there, you jump the line and it disorients the audience. Oh, interesting. Okay. That's how it works. Like I was always picking up a camera and shooting things and making things. It was just a, it was natural to me. I don't think it was a intellectual decision. I was just very curious. I wanted to know more and I would watch people make decisions that made impact. The guys with the in the nice chairs would come over and they'd make a suggestion and I'd see that work and I'd be like, Oh, that's cool. What do they do? Oh, they're producers. Wow. And they're, they're guiding the story. Oh, cool. Like that's, that's really interesting. Like, so I'd always be very curious about how things worked. And I was talking to him with Mel Gibson about this when I, when I first met him and he said, yeah, his film school was him as an actor was, was exactly that same discussion we were just having. He, he learned how to become a director by acting a lot and understanding how things are done, asking questions, being curious.

Tarek: And so now on, on this iteration of wizards, are you writing, directing, producing? What, what, where do you, where do you play?

David: Yeah. So I'm, I'm executive producing, which the job of the executive producer is, is, is a, is a high up position where you're overseeing pretty much everything going on on set. And there's several executive producers who have very similar jobs, but articulate that job a little differently. So, you know, for me being one of the people that kind of put this together in the first place, I, I, I'm looking out for the heart. I'm looking out for the humor. I'm looking out just for the, the macro level themes that I think made the original show special. And I'm trying to be a guardian of that for lack of better words throughout this new series. So that's like really, really important for me is making sure that there's these wonderful familial themes and values. It's, it's you know, it's, it's, it's like the, the Robinson's always stick together, right? It's this classic message, but we're the Russos, the Russos always stick together. So it's this I think the show is a great vehicle for family values and a way that I'll tell you a couple of stories. When I was a teenager, I realized the power of story when I was in another country and I met this kid and, and this kid was like, Hey, I have a really, I have a bad family. And your show showed me that families can, can stick together. And I thought I never wanted a family until I saw your show. Wow. And your show made me realize that one day I can have a family that can stick together and thank you for that. And I, I was like, Whoa, I didn't even think of that. And I've countless stories like this, including stories of like kids who are suicidal, who needed a laugh like desperately in a moment needed a laugh. And our show was there for them and like took them off of a very dark path. So this stuff really matters to me. You know, the, the power of storytelling, the power of art to, to pierce the soul in a way that no intellectual exercise can. And you might look at a sitcom or a funny show and just be like, Oh, it's just a, you know, something I'll have a beer or two or whatever, but you don't realize what effect that's having on you. You don't realize how powerful and profound of an experience you're having.

Tarek: Disney in particular has always played a pretty big role in childhood entertainment and the morals and the values. And some of the themes that you're talking about have been synonymous with the name Disney. Recently, Disney has come under fire in the news because I was actually just looking at a, a headline today. It says, Disney Snow White opens with a lackluster 43 million amid controversies and, and poor reviews. And so I'm, I'm interested as kind of a Disney insider as somebody that's been heavily involved with Disney is his whole entire career. What, what is your perspective on what is happening? What's working, what's not working?

David: Yeah. I, you know, I think our whole industry, Disney, Disney plays a part in this, but I think the whole industry is in this kind of existential crisis. And I think has been since streaming really came to the forefront where you have different ways to consume media. Traditional revenue streams have completely dropped off. You no longer have the DVD. The DVD used to be a massive part of the revenue stream. Like if you're looking at a pie chart where theatrical revenue comes in DVD and then ancillary revenues after that DVD was a massive part of that equation, right?

Tarek: So HS when I was in school, I mean, you'd walk into a dorm room and it'd just be a wall of VHS.

David: VHS is, it's like you're buying the product twice or three times. I mean, you get three bites at the Apple. If you're, if you're a studio, that's really important revenue for you. Right? So that suddenly, that suddenly falls off and you have streamers come up and they say to the filmmaker, who's been worried about premiering at a box office for decades because they sink or swim based on that opening week, best or worst weekend of their life based on how the box office performed. They're like, Oh great. And you're giving me enough money to make my film big and beautiful. Great. Like people, people ate that, eat that deal up. Right. And then on top of that, you have the economic issues where you have movies that are so expensive, so expensive effects that are so expensive to where you got to make a billion dollars in the box office in order to make back your money or half a billion dollars to make back your money and P and a cost added on top of that just compounds the issue. So I think there's, there's many business reasons why big, big movies are having a tough time right now. But one of my core values, you know, Disney aside, one of my core values as a, as a content creator and as a, as a filmmaker is to make movies with timeless themes and values. And I think you see the box office rewarding movies with very timeless themes and values along the way. So for me, that is what I'm really focused on. It's what we're focused on with our new company because I am, I am mission driven in a sense of, I just got back from a trip from Italy. So I'm all, I'm all nostalgic over my, over, over that trip. And I also, I am Italian. So I S I've grown up with the power of art and the power that art can have on a mind, on a culture and what it represents to our culture. I think it was Aristotle who said, you know, if you give me law politics or art you take art all day long because art shapes souls and shapes minds. So for me, I get excited about making stories that have wonderful family values and just timeless values that can apply to all peoples in all places and all times. And I think the more you're, you're seeing a lot more of that being made the past few years. And I think the, the, the box office is rewarding it. And Yeah, I can think of a few like angel studios and kingdom pictures.

Tarek: A lot of the films that they're coming out with are being very successful. They're not huge budgets, but they're speaking to a demographic of people who want high quality entertainment without a lot of the, you know, the, the more morally, you know, objectionable inserts as it were.

David: You're taking like as a parent, like at least me with my three kids, when I go take them to a movie, this is not a teaching moment, right? This is a moment of fun. Like we're going to the movies. The kids get excited, they get popcorn, they get to watch something. I'm not trying to have a conversation with them on the car ride back about something that they, some foreign concept that's introduced them that I've never, that I've never talked to them about.

Tarek: We've all been sitting on the couch with, we got grandma, we got our sister, we got our mom and we're watching a movie on Thanksgiving and you know, a scene will come on that is very objectionable and you're thinking, I would rather be anywhere in the world right now than this sofa between my mom and my grandma while this is going on.

David: I'm sweating thinking about it. I just, I've always really struggled with what is the motivation to throw these like gratuitous scenes in there that don't add any value and all it does is it marginalizes the audience that's there just to be entertained. And I think you brought up angel studios and kingdom. I think it's the collective frustration over the scene you just proposed that's been building up for decades. That is the reason why these companies are succeeding and companies like ours are able to finally make high quality content right now and get it out there because I think people are very frustrated with having gratuitous scenes in content they want to watch with their families and they're, they're, they're done with it. They're done with it. They're frustrated. So they get excited when they see house of David on Amazon or they see ordinary angels come out and or anything from angel studios. You know, they know that they're going to go have an experience without an awkward moment or an awkward car ride home. You want to make movies that the car ride home is hopeful and optimistic and exciting. Wow, this character did this. Oh, that inspired me. You know, like that. It's like the first time we all watched Rocky afterwards, right? You might not even be able to put it into words, but you're just walking a little taller and you're standing a little stronger, whatever steps you can to sprint up at the top. You're running stairs, you're punching cows, you know, hanging upside down in a freezer for some reason, but you're, you're wanting to be better. And I, by the way, there's a great, you should throw this clip up right now while we're doing this. But Stallone talks about this and I forget which late night show it was, but he talks about why he made Rocky. And he said, because, well, you should just show the clip.

Tarek: Well, I felt at the time that cinema, at least the movies I had been seeing were at an all time low. It was, everything was anti society, anti Christ, anti government, anti everything. And there was no one to root for. And I also feel that films are very cyclic. So I wanted to get back into the cycle of the films of the forties and the fifties where people say, Hey, gee, I missed a good old films yet. Hollywood hasn't taken heed and hasn't made any good old fashion type films where morality was at the forefront.

David: He's saying a lot of the same talking points that I think this generation of a filmmaker is saying right now too, that like, we want to be reminded again of how to be optimistic and hopeful.

Tarek: So we're going to talk about Reagan later and obviously heavily involved in, in, you know, the tearing down of the Berlin wall, but I think it was Sylvester Stallone and the Rocky series that brought down the fall of communism.

David: Oh man. And you know, part of the reason why I love going behind the camera is Stallone visited our set one day and he came on set with his kids were big fans of our show. Okay. And he goes, this is recently. This was, I was, you know, I'm 35 now. I was like 20, 21. Okay. Then he came to the original show and I was just such a fan of his. I was like, Rocky, it's amazing. He goes to my kids. I don't even know where Rocky is. You know, I don't even know where Rocky is. You got to tell him, tell him David, tell him. And so I was like trying to talk up his dad, him in front of his kids. But he said, I told him I was writing for the show and he goes, that's smart. He goes, you got to control your future. You got to control where you're going because the auditions will come and go kid. You got to control where you're going. And then he told me a whole story. I said, nice watch. And he goes, it's a Panerai. And he told me a whole story of how he helped build Panerai. Really? He was like shooting a movie in an old wooden ship and there was like a container and he opened the container and there was an old Panerai and he was, his watch, his presence. Wow. This thing's got like, Whoa, this is a beautiful watch. I got to call my friends at Cartier and see if we can do something with his watch. And he, he, he helped build like Panerai to what it is today. But talk about controlling your future. But yeah, he really, he, that conversation really stuck with me. He really inspired me to go, I need to control my future. And I'm in this business to want to recreate that magical feeling in audiences that I think they so desperately want these days.

Tarek: So not to get too personal, but you're on this family show and you're young, you're 18, 19, 20, 21. You're now globally famous celebrated everywhere. You've got money. You've got opportunity. The women love you. Are you in that moment thinking, man, I really want to launch a media company that's focused on family values or for this thing from it, for this thing from it.

David: No, I, I, you know, I was in a bit of an existential crisis. Like I had a problem. I was had a lot of that, that those things that you said lived a very materialistically driven life. And the more stuff I got, the, the unhappier I was. And there was a direct correlation there. Like I remember I had a big moment where I wanted to purchase a certain thing and I, I want to work really hard. And if I succeed one day, I can buy this thing. And, and I got there and I bought the thing. That was like my dream thing. And I just remember going, Oh man, I'm not as, I'm not as excited as I thought I'd be like, Oh, what a bummer. And it's a, it's kind of a silly story, but it was a big moment in my mind because I went, where is happiness? I just do this forever. Like I keep buying the bigger thing.

Tarek: So this reminds me of the comment you just made a moment ago about being on set and being really curious about, you know, the camera location. I was just curious about why they did this and why did they, why they did that. And it's like, it strikes me that you can sort of have this natural curiosity and so you, you encounter this problem. I'm not happy. I have everything that I want. Where do I, where do I find this? Where do I go?

David: I didn't even put that together, but yeah, totally. That's my, that's how I think. Yeah. And I, I didn't understand it. I thought like I got this thing, like I really wanted this thing and wow. It's just not, it's not doing it for me. Like something's wrong with me. Why aren't I happy? Like I should be happy. I have what people want to be successful. Like why aren't I happy? And it just led me on an existential crisis. I started reading different books. I was studying Buddhism. I was reading comparative mythology and I was just, nothing was really doing it for me. I was headed in the right direction because I knew I needed something philosophical. I needed something deeper than just materialism. And it set me off on the right path. And it wasn't until I, I got a, I, I got, I got a movie called little boy. And in this movie, there were some really kind producers, really nice guys who I started debating philosophy with.

Tarek: And this is pretty common on most movie sets.

David: No, no, this is nuts. This is nuts. I thought like, what, where am I? This is crazy. And it was movie called little boys, Kevin James, Michael Rappaport. I had a great cast, Emily Watson, and it was a dramatic film. So it was a chance for me to like show my dramatic chops and I'm not just a funny guy. I can be serious too. And they had these philosophy nights. And I would go to these philosophy nights and it was, it was basically Aristotelian and to mystic logic on the proofs for the existence of God.

Tarek: And everyone listening is like, this is not what I expected.

David: Yeah, no, it wasn't at all, but it was, it was food for my soul. It was exactly what I was craving. Cause I was so relativistic and lost and confused. I had no ground to stand on. And this finally started to give direction. And this is what inspired a change in my life. This is what led me to becoming Christian. It led me to then years later meeting my wife, starting a family. It made sense of all the natural instincts that I had growing up. I always wanted to believe in something objectively true and right, but I just lived in such a relativistic world that that felt wrong. And it, my instincts felt stunted or incorrect.

Tarek: So, so you're, you're having these conversations, you're being impacted by, you know, these mentors, if you will. And where do you go from there? And because you have, you know, you, you're fortunate that you had this stable family life, but you know, your, your parents aren't practicing Christians at this point. Your, your brother is another actor, not practicing Christians. Like your, your whole world, this is foreign to the world that you're in.

David: It totally.

Tarek: So, so what happens next?

David: Yeah. I, it, I said, I need to pursue this and I need to figure this out. I need to chase this rabbit as far as it'll go because this, this seems right to me. And I remember I finished the movie, I got back home and my family thought, you know, I was like kind of crazy cause they were like, you're wanting to make a big life change. You know, you're gonna become Christian. And my mom was very supportive. She had no issues with that. Like she, you know, grew up, grew up Catholic Italian and she had no issues with that. But, but it was a big change from how I behaved previously, the types of people I was hanging out with, the stuff I was doing is big change. I was dating a girl at the time who did, didn't like that. And this change and, but I needed to pursue it because I believed it was true or it could be true. And it led to change. Lots of change. It was pruned. I was, I was stripped and it, it came with a lot of sacrifice, but ultimately it, I stuck with it. And my dad, my brother, my mom, everyone came along slowly. They, we, in fact, we're all confirmed on the same day, like a year and a half later, we all got confirmed into the church on the same day.

Tarek: Wow.

David: But it was, it was, it was a process and thanks be to God. It was a beautiful one, but painful one.

Tarek: Did you think about leaving Hollywood at this point?

David: Oh, for sure. I was like, what am I going to do? Like, like I, I gotta go do something like become a missionary or something, but like, where do I go? I don't know how to do it. I was actually going to mass every day and I, I heard the parable of the sower and the seeds and the talents as well. And just how, you know, God wants a return on what he's giving you. And I think for me, at least when I want to know God's will in my life, I look at my circumstances and go, okay, well first, where have I been put? Like, where am I, what am I doing? And you know, all I knew was Hollywood. I had all these great connections and friendships and relationships.

Tarek: And I'm sure these mentors actually in some way communicated to you that you can live out your faith, even in an environment which is pretty hostile to it, right? That they were making movies in Hollywood and yet still having philosophy nights.

David: At the time it certainly wasn't as cool to have any faith in Hollywood as it is now. Now I think it's in a beautiful way, has much more receptivity because these movies are making a lot of money and, and Hollywood is a for-profit business.

Tarek: Well, the movies are making money, but you're also seeing a lot more actors come out and be more vocal about their faith. So, you know, Mark Wahlberg and Chris Pratt and, you know, Rob Schneider. And, you know, I mean, the list goes on, obviously, you know, Mel Gibson. And, you know, a lot of these guys are on Halo app and, you know, just communicating the importance of their faith. This is sort of a novelty. This was not very common 20 years ago, or at least the accessibility of these actors made it such that you didn't really know that this is kind of what they're going through.

David: At all. You're seeing a massive cultural shift, like massive, in a beautiful way. I think part of it is supply and demand, and there's such a high demand for values-based content and faith-based content. And all of us have seen it for years. And now it's finally happening. People are finally backing that. So you're, you're seeing that, which is a, which is a really beautiful, a beautiful thing. And I love that guys like Chris and Mark Wahlberg and Kevin James and, you know, Mel in a lot of ways with passion started it. So I love that. I love that we're, we're seeing that.

Tarek: So you and your brother determined that you're going to stay in Hollywood and you're going to do kind of your part. And you really start thinking about making this, you know, the high quality movies, values-driven, et cetera. How did that impact your career? I mean, were you having conversations with your agents at this point? Like, Hey, you know, we're, I'm not going to be in Basic Instinct 2 or anything.

David: You know, it, it, it affected my career for sure, because it gave me a lens through which I knew what I did and didn't want to do. You know, I, um, I wouldn't take on certain roles. I turned down roles, lost a lot of money. Uh, and you know, when you're turning down lots of money, whatever, millions of dollars, your people aren't happy. A lot of them were supportive and understood and, you know, And some of the new opportunities dry up because they're well, David's turning down everything.

Tarek: So what's the point? Let's just start looking at the next guy who will jump on it. Your brother ran into an issue, Lorenzo.

David: Yes. He was going to be Al Pacino in the offer. And there were a couple of scenes that, that he saw in the scripts where, um, you know, it was like explicitly sexual gratuitous content. Some of it he'd have to be involved in as well. And he's married and he told his wife, like, I'll never, you know, I'm not going to, you know, be making out with a naked chick at any time. I promise you that. Like, yeah, I don't care how much you're acting like that, that you're doing that.

Tarek: Um, So they made him an offer he could refuse.

David: They made him an offer he could refuse. And yeah, he, that was a big deal. He turned that down.

Tarek: Neil McDonough is another actor, uh, you know, who is in Yellowstone and a bunch of famous movie band of brothers. And he's another guy that's like, he got fired off at disparate housewives.

David: Cause he didn't want to make out with another woman. He said, I don't, I only kiss my wife.

Tarek: Admirable.

David: Yeah. I mean, so, so it's, it's, you know, it's, um, It was the reason that we said, okay, we got to start a company. We got to, because we're, we still have, you know, even to this day, we have great relationships in Hollywood and we take very seriously trying to be good to all those that we work with and trying to be, you know, live out our faith in the best way possible. But you don't, most of the time I say St. Francis quote, like preach, always speak only when necessary. Like to me, I'm just trying to be as faithful and hardworking as I possibly can be. And that, that you're involved with.

Tarek: So you get behind camera with catch, which is a short film that you made to really start, you know, exercising your directing chops. You've recently directed Mel Gibson and Mason Tames and monster summer, big operation and out in theaters and, uh, and now streaming on, on, uh, Amazon. Um, it's, it's, uh, I'm, I'm interested to, to understand what that process was like and how that has really kind of set you up for, you know, Novo inspire, which we'll talk about here in a little bit.

David: Yeah. Yeah. For, for me, it was this kind of big picture vision where I just went like, I want to create a destination where families can come and know they're going to get a high quality experience that's entertaining and elevating that will provoke a positive conversation in the car, right on the way home. So some of it will just be values based content. That's like, I don't know, the movies you grew up with the sound of musics of the world or Lord of the rings, you name it, just content that's, you know, secular in appearance, but just vivified by great values. Um, and then some faith based content as well, that, that you can go and have an actual experience of your faith. And, um, so, so to me, I said, man, what can I do to help serve this vision and my, what, what talents do I have to bring to the table? So as an actor, as a director, as a producer, that's what I want to activate in order to craft this vision to have a company that's entertaining and elevating broad audiences everywhere. I didn't know the business side though, but my dad did. He had been investing in film and TV along the way as I was coming up in the business. So he understood that the capital stock was a producer on a lot of different films and producer on lots of different films and shows. So he understood the business. And my brother also has great relationships and very similar skill sets to mine. So we said, okay, let's come together. Let's put this vision together and start making content that can kind of prove out this theory of what we're, what we're wanting to do. Think back on a time to when you were younger and you were watching movies, you could walk into any movie and it would be good. You wouldn't have to go home and have an awkward conversation. My wife and I have three children and the fact that we have to be forensic investigators with every piece of content that our children watch is a problem. Kids are spending more time in front of their devices than they are with their parents. I mean, that's, that shouldn't be a shocker to you. It's just the reality. So what are they watching? You might've heard it said that politics is downstream from culture. Well, culture is downstream from storytelling. Statistically, what we've seen in the studio system is that the content that delivers the widest and the most significant box office results is G or PG or PG 13. It's interesting that the studios though are spending more of their capital in producing. Do a Novo, which is bring worry-free entertainment back to the front. And so that's, we've been doing the past five years. We, we we, we produced about a hundred close to a hundred million dollars worth of content. Um, we sold shows to Netflix, uh, tail, dark and grim.

Tarek: Yeah. Talk about a tail, dark and grim because that was an animated feature.

David: Yes.

Tarek: So how did that come about? And what's it, what's it like working on an animated feature versus live action?

David: Totally. So it, it, it's like one big movie cut up into eight episodes and we had, um, we had a great relationship. My dad actually had a good relationship with someone in the animation world named Chris Henderson, who had a relationship with an offer named Adam Gidwitz who had a bestselling book. And we loved this book. It was an incredibly beautiful book called a tail dark and grim, which was grim fairy tales, but in an authentic old school grim style. And that's important because kids, kids inherently know, like why were grim stories dark, right? Well, they're dark because they were representing something dark that they would then encounter one day in life. Life isn't sunshine and rainbows. And if we're raising our kids in this like safe bubble world, our kids are going to wake up one day as young adults and go, life is not what I was raised to believe. It's hard and scary. There's dragons and monsters all around me. And my boss is a dragon and I don't know how to handle this. Right. But if you tell them fairy tales, they're going to know how to slay their dragons later in life.

Tarek: It reminds me actually, we, we just caught a cougar on our game camera, literally lions on the property and small children. It's like, okay guys, we have to have a talk here.

David: Life and death. This is a, this is a real world we live in. Right. I mean, these things exist and whether it's a literal cougar or figurative cougar, you're going to face that later in life and you got to know not to be afraid and to slay that thing. Right. So we, that's what we loved about this book is that this book wasn't afraid to be authentically grim, but in a way that wasn't offensive to the viewer, you know, we're not trying to scar kids. In fact, the phrase we kind of coined was scare, not scar. So it's okay to scare, but scare with purpose, you know, he's scary dragon. It's scary. Yeah. You're going to face scary dragons, kids like that will happen.

Tarek: Your whole entire childhood is dealing with fear.

David: Yes. Yes.

Tarek: Sometimes you're very little.

David: You face as a kid is dualities. Good, bad, heaven, hell, dark light. Like that's, that's what you're dealing with as a kid. And you know, that is this person good or bad is what kids say. They don't say what degree of good is this person and where do they live in the gray? And that's not okay to think like they, they're built with these things in them. So we love this story and we, we put it together. We, we developed it, we pooled relationships. You brought in great directors, great artists, and we, we pitched the town and we, we sold it to Netflix and, and it went on to get nominated for an Emmy. It was so exciting. We made a couple movies. You said monster summer. We got to work with Mel Gibson who was like, yeah, so let's, Mel Gibson growing up for me.

Tarek: I mean, this guy was, you know everybody's favorite actor, brave heart was, you know, the college movie that was playing on a continuous loop 24 seven. What was that like meeting him? And obviously he's just a brilliant director and somebody I'm sure you learned a lot from.

David: Of course. Yeah. I've seen all of his movies, have studied him and he coined the phrase that we based our company on entertain, educate and elevate.

Tarek: Okay.

David: So that was like, that was like a hit him saying, or he got it from someone else, but he would use that a lot. Like if you can try to be entertaining, entertain, educate and elevate, if you can hit the three E's in a piece of content, like you're doing a good job, that's how you get a great piece of content. And he'll even say, even if you just do one, right? Like you're doing a really good job.

Tarek: Well, there's a fourth, the excess profits.

David: Yeah. Yeah. The artists, the artists tend to drop that to you from time to time. But you know, getting to getting to have a movie where I was going to get to go meet him and try to pitch him was like a really big, big, big deal to me. Because I'd studied all of his projects and I'd seen all of his movies and I was, I was nervous. I was nervous, but I knew, I knew fairy tales and I knew stories. And I remember seeing him as I was pulling up to the meeting. I remember seeing him in the coffee shop and I just hit with fear, right? It felt like a little child again. Like I was hit with fear. And I literally in my head, I go, I'm going to pull out my, this fricking sword. I'm going to slay this dragon. I said, I'm not, I'm not backing down. I it's okay to be hit with fear, but I don't, I'm not a respecter of persons. I don't care what he thinks of me. I'm just going to go in. I'm going to pitch my vision. So in my head I literally pulled out the sword and I went in and I go, I'm going to slay this thing. And, uh, and it was an amazing meeting. It was an amazing meeting. We talked for like two and a half hours. And then he goes, so tell me about the movie, you know, but it was just talking to talk about everything, everything.

Tarek: Okay.

David: Life, death, theology, um, all of it, family, like we're just getting to know each other, like just shooting the breeze. And, and, uh, I was talking about his movies. It's talking about passion of the Christ. I mean, it was sort of a brave heart. I mean, we talked about everything, the underrated Apocalypto, which is yes. Oh, Apocalypto. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. He's telling me stories of Apocalypto and none of those guys were actors and cause we were talking about working with kid actors and working with kid actors. A lot of times don't have that much experience. And he goes, Oh yeah, that reminded me of Apocalypto and none of them were actors. I had to, I had to teach them, teach them what to do. And, um, I got great stories there. And you know, it was funny. There was one pivotal moment cause he had no idea who I was, you know, in terms of acting or any of that. He just thinks the director's coming to pitch him on the movie. And, um, at one point a bunch of girls came up and, and he stood up to take a picture and they go, Oh no, we want David's picture. And he goes, who the hell are you kid? I was like, Oh, I'm an actor. He goes, Oh, of course, of course. He goes, how do you learn how to direct? And I was like, yeah. And he goes, Oh, the me too. That's how I learned how to direct. It was actually a great moment where we got to, um, it was an opening up moment in the conversation.

Tarek: Well, I mean, there's a great lesson there too, right? Because those girls were terrified to go up to you. I've been in, in situations with you where people are coming up and want to get your picture and they're really nervous and they're tentative and they're feeling those same emotions that you felt when you went to go meet Mel. And we all have those periods of anxiety and nervousness, no matter how successful you are in entertainment or in business. And it's a lot of, a lot of our own challenges are sort of just getting out of our own way and it, and, and opening up. And some of the things that you had said earlier, I think, um, you know, really resonate that, you know, at the end of the day, the only relationship that matters is between you and God.

David: And then everything else is just, you know, you can solidify that the more that guy that's like my daily thing I work on is like the more I can solidify that the less you're respecters of persons or you're, you're placing people above God. And then those situations always become easier. I think it's, um, I'm like, I've been working on, okay, it's okay to be hit with that kind of antecedent fear from time to time where human beings are fallen. We're not angels. We're not perfect. It's okay to be hit with that. But pushing forward through that, that's where your habits, your, your formation in life, that's where that kicks in. Hopefully you had a good dad who said to you, I believe in you, you know, you can, you got what it takes to get through this.

Tarek: It goes back to slaying the dragon, right? We're still dealing with some of the same childhood themes, even as we age and have families and fathers and all that kind of stuff.

David: I think it was Einstein who said, you want to really, you want to really intelligent kid, tell them fairy tales. And if you want a genius, tell them more fairy tales, something like that. I probably butchered it, but some someone in the comments will correct me. But, um, but, but it's true, right? Because why was he saying something like that? He was saying something like that, because how we interact with objects in reality, there's so much going on that we're not even conscious of your, your brain is firing back into memories. The, the, there's a storm of things going on. And if you have those stories baked into your psychology, you're going to sense the species of, of, of difficulty or monsters or evil or whatever it is. You're going to sense that. And you've already been programmed to overcome it.

Tarek: So let's go back to that theme of monsters because now Mel's on board, he's attached to monster summer filmed on Martha's Vineyard came out last October, just in time for Halloween. Um, I've seen it. It's a, it's an awesome movie. I love it. Um, super entertaining, um, reminds me of going to the movies and seeing Goonies like very family friendly, um, positive themes of, of good and evil. What, what was that like to take on? That's a, that was a big budget. That was a, you know, a big feature film and with A-list actors and what, I guess we can kind of go back to fear. You have, I'm sure your own reservations as a director, you're dealing with themes of good and evil in the movie.

David: Oh yeah.

Tarek: Talk about that.

David: Oh yeah, absolutely. And I'm directing an Oscar winning director. How do you direct an Oscar winning director? Yeah.

Tarek: No, no intimidation there.

David: Who's your star. It's like, that's like trying, that's like, that's like being like, Hey, Michelangelo, I'm going to paint this in front of you. Can you just hold still and like, and he's also worked with a lot of fabulous directors, Richard Donner and others. And it's like, okay, now I'm going to be held, held, you know, in comparison to these guys. He's worked with the biggest, he's worked with the biggest. So like that, that was a really nerve wracking experience and process for me. And that again, exactly like pulling out the sword and slaying the dragon. It was just this thing where I was like, okay, I've been in this business for 20 years, 25 years. Uh, at that time, I've been in this business. I understand this business. I've worked with bad directors. I've worked with good directors. I know what good directors look like and what bad directors look like. I'm going to do what I saw the good directors do. So hyper-focus on preparation, come in with a game plan, know exactly where I got, know exactly how to communicate with the actors. I've been treated very poorly. I've been treated great as an actor. So I know, I know really, I'm not afraid of actors. I know these people. These are my people. I know them. I know how they want to be talked to. And that's a lot of directors don't have that because they grew up in film school working with not trained or not professional actors. They don't know how to talk to a real actor. They haven't had that, that interaction before. And so that was something I was like, okay, those are my strengths. And then hire my weaknesses. So I got an incredible DP, you know, the technical side of directing. I wasn't as proficient on as, as, as kids who probably came up in, in film school. But I also knew that if I hired the right team, I didn't need to be because there's lots of very famous directors who couldn't care less about the camera. They let, they let the DP set up the camera. They go, just put that where you want. I'm going to work with the actors.

Tarek: So the lessons for some of our younger listeners from a, just a leadership standpoint, treat people the right way, be humble, listen and learn, hire smart people around you to help support you and not, not feel, you know, like it's a, it's a competition, but build your weakness.

David: Yeah.

Tarek: Build the best team that you can. And I think there, you know, something else I'll call, I saw a post that you did on LinkedIn sort of almost like a love letter to the crew for wizards beyond Waverly place. And the crew in the comments, it's like, thank you so much, David. We just loved working with you. And it's just, it made me think about some of the best leaders that I've been around are just there. They're there people that galvanize teams and, and bring people together. And, and I sense that you have that, and that's gotta be one of the best qualities of a director is just bringing all of these disparate views and emotions and, you know, actors who can be divas to technical guys who want to be right on schedule all the time. And, and, and you're, it's like playing an instrument with a lot of different keys.

David: Totally. And it's the, the servant leadership model, like an old mentor of mine, this guy named Dennis Gallagher's big, big CEO, 13,000 employees. Like, and he would just, he'd very simply say, if I serve my people, my people serve the company. And if I've served my people, the people serve the customer, the customer serves the company simple as that. I serve my people, they serve the customer customer serves the company. And in filmmaking, it's very similar. Like as a director, I take very seriously serving my crew because if they see that I care about them that much, and that I'm going out of the way to, how's your family? How are you? You know, and, and patting people on the back and just, you know, we're, we're all in this, it's just a movie guys. Like at the end of the day, we're, we're, I know we're all killing ourselves here, but it's a movie. Let's enjoy this. We're privileged. Let's, let's have a really good time and extra little extra gestures, getting a coffee cart, getting a masseuse on set to take care of a couple of people I saw stressed out stuff like this. You throw some things in there that really makes a huge difference. And then the crew believes in you. And then they work harder because they're, they, they're not working with an a-hole they're working with a guy that they, that they like. I take that very seriously. And cause I genuinely do care like each and every day. I'm like, I love these people and it's my job today to try to do what I need to do professionally, but also they're human beings. And everyone's dignity deserves to be recognized and treated in a certain way on set. They're human beings are not, they're not, not robots that we're just punching into, into shape here. And that's what crews hate. Crews hate when they're treated. I've been treated like, like a piece of meat, like a robot. Like my dignity has not been recognized as a human being. We're not animals. We're human beings. It goes back to the family values that are so pervasive in the stories that you're telling. And I make a conscious living that out. And I make a conscious effort on every set that I'm on to bring my wife, to bring my children. When the day is done, they're right there. And people are like, Oh, the kids, kids running around. Like, I'm like, yeah, my kid, my, my family's here. Like, this is a big family here. And they love that. They love that. I, I, the, the amount of people who have come up to me after shoots and have been like, I can't tell you how refreshing it was to see your family on set. Cause we forget, we forget our, it's easy to forget your priorities when you're just busting your butt to make the day. When you shoot a movie for everyone who hasn't shot a movie, there's like two to 300 people every single day going at a moment. All of them are working under department heads who are trying to tweak a thing and get something right. Like it is a, a small war going on and the amount of capital expense that's being spent on every day, every second is accountable. I mean, you have days where you're, you'll spend a million dollars in a day. And in that day, you have to shoot six minutes that will be used in the film. So every minute you're shooting is worth a lot of money, stress motions. You got the 300 people going, I can't screw this up. Oh, I didn't put the thing up on the light tight enough. Oh no, it fell. Oh, that costs us 10 minutes. The department head comes down on him. That guy is either fired or he's chewed out in front of everyone else. It's a, it's a, yeah, it's a, it's a culture that kicks your butt. Has fatherhood helped you? Marriage helped you in learning how to be a leader and a director and tremendously in what ways patients, patients, when you have kids, especially kids close in age, you have six, four and two. And, uh, you know, they're, they're, they're little, they're little monkeys they're at each other's throats all the time. Totally. And they're not reasonable, rational beings. And so you're there, they're like heat seeking missiles for your greatest fault and they will find it. A two year old will find your fault better than an adult can after a four hour conversation because they press every button and then, Oh, I got a response on this one. I'm going to keep, I'm going to keep hitting that one until I find the crack. And then I'm just going to go in and they do that. And so it's a sanctifying thing. It's great because at the end of the day, you're sitting there talking to your wife going, man, a two year old just wrecked me today. Why is that? Well, I need to work on patients, you know, and when they do that, the next time I got to work on patients. So they, they help. If you're used to being yelled at by kids all day long and then you go on a movie set, you can take it, you can be patient. And you're dealing with big babies. A lot of the times you can, I was going to say, you can take it.

Tarek: Who's more mature, your six year old or some of the actors that you direct?

David: Yeah. Yeah. No comment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No comment. But that that's that servant culture. It really works. It really works when you're, you got to mean it though. You can't be disingenuous. Like you got to genuinely, genuinely care for your people and protect your people and take responsibility. Like I love that extreme ownership book. You got to take responsibility. Don't ever throw someone under the bus, especially if you're in charge, like you, you never, if someone else screwed up right behind me and then the executive comes in and they're calling out the mistake, I'm going to go, I'm going to go, Hey, you know, I, I, this was under my watch and everything. I messed up and we're going to take care of it though. Okay. I hear what you're saying. My apology. We're going to take care of it. Then you go talk to that person. This discussion on leadership is actually a great segue into the new company.

Tarek: So, you know, directing producing a film is like sort of creating your own micro company in a sense, right? There's a big budget. There are employees. Yeah. Marketing campaign that's associated with it. There's profit and loss. I mean, there, there, there's so much there that is you know, lessons there that can be taken to running your own bigger business. And I know that you have a vision there with no vote pictures. I'd love to hear about it.

David: So we wanted to form a company that can operate on more scale and volume. We hit this inflection point. We looked back and we said, wow, we've produced a ton of content. We've had success. We've had failure. We we've learned and we think we know what we need to do moving forward in order to operate on more scale and, and volume. And so for us, it was about really building this mission to entertain and elevate the broader culture because, you know, we love this book, the user method, which it talks all about how different individuals created products for things that they needed in their own personal life. And for me as a family man and my brother is a family man and my father, we just weren't seeing the kind of content that we wanted for, for, for our kids and for our, our, our families. And we looked at our lives and said, we have the skillset to do this.

Tarek: Yeah. It's pretty rare actually to have, you know, these A-list actors with the background that you have, the access to Hollywood, the access to deal flow, the connections that you have made who are now taking that, that whole toolkit and applying it to something that is, is family oriented. There are a lot of kind of faith based filmmakers and there are a lot of guys doing kind of one-off projects here and there, but it's pretty rare to have what you have and the capabilities that you have with the organization to kind of do what you want to do.

David: No, totally. Especially if you want to make things in the more Chesterton, Tolkien, Lewis kind of fashion, which is content that really appeals to the broader culture, not just to a specific box of like faith based movies, which is fine. We have some of those as well, but we want to make things that can really reach the broader audience. Cause again, to really affect culture, to really touch hearts and minds, you need to make things that, that appeal to a broader demographic of people who don't share that same faith. One of my buddies who actually came to the faith not too long ago, credited it all to Lord of the Rings. Interesting. Had no idea that, that the guy behind Lord of the Rings was a believer, but he experienced an ethos in that world that just made so much sense to him and rang so true.

Tarek: Again, it goes back to the themes of good and evil as just palpable in that.

David: Someone who spoke well, theologically perfect. It checked it perfectly made sense to him cause he loved Lord of the Rings. So the, the, the world out there needs, needs feeding. And there's a lot of lost sheep and the types of content that we make can really, can really reach a lot of them. I find so many people are so invested in affecting culture in ways that I don't think are as effective. They get involved in politics or law, which is very important, like really, really important. Don't get me wrong, really important. But getting involved in art that has a way to shape culture. Again, I just got back from Italy and I got to see all of these wonderful legacies of these very prolific men who gave their fortunes to leaving behind. They would start building a cathedral. They would be dead. Their kids would be dead. Their grandkids would be dead by the time it would be finished, but they did it anyway. They wrote the check anyway cause they believed how important art was and how important beauty was to a culture. And these are establishments that literally created culture and created all of Western civilization for that matter. They understood the power of beauty and the power of art to affect hearts and minds. And so for us, we wanted to make Novo Inspire Group because we wanted a fund where people like us who wanted content that can affect hearts and minds in a very deeply in a very deep way, finally had a vehicle by which they could do it and do it at a high excellence, a high quality bar with the top level talent, top stories and actually get it out there in a broad way that can affect millions of people. We've been doing it already on the content that we've made and now we're going to be able to do it in a, in a more scalable way with, with a fund. Yeah.

Tarek: You know, you and I have, have spoken a lot about the fund. I, and you know, full disclosure, I'm an investor through my family foundation and what, what really inspired me was growing up. I grew up somewhat of a latchkey kid, eighties and nineties grew up watching a lot of television and grew up watching a lot of movies and to this day still feel the scars and sort of the, the poison of, of a lot of that content that I ingested in my youth because so much of it was bad. So much of it was immoral. And now that I'm a father and I have small children and I, I've, I've had, you know, the blessing of, you know, some financial success. I, my wife and I have asked the questions to each other, like how do we want to give back and what form do we want to give back? Cause there are a lot of different ways. Some people will, will, you know, donate money to political causes. Some people will donate to the church and we do both of those things and that's important and impactful. But we've always wanted to try to help shape the entertainment world and try to pivot it away from what we feel is this declining morality and to something that's much more uplifting. But the one unique thing about entertainment is I'll use a business expression. There's no access to deal flow, right? There's no shortage of political campaigns you can donate to or churches around the corner. But when it comes to investing in a film project, it's like how do you even get access to it? That was the, the, the first challenge. But you know, the second challenge is, you know, there's a stigma about investing in, in films and the stigma is, it's a great way to lose money. And what you know, I think is pretty common in the industry is there's a one-off project. There's, there's, you know, a single film, you go ahead and you're essentially rolling the dice. It's like investing in a pink sheet in the stock market and it, you know, it may make you a bunch of money or you may lose everything. What, what really clicked for me on the kind of the fund approach and to, you know, take a pool of capital, invest in 10 different projects instead of one project is it reminded me of when, you know, I, I cut my teeth in Silicon Valley with Texas Instruments and I would call on a lot of VCs and in a lot of their startup companies as it were. And, you know, it's power law distribution where, you know, you can be wrong 60% of the time and still make an absolute killing because, you know, some of the projects are going to break, even some of them are going to lose money and there's going to be a handful that are just moon shots. And that's how you, you make your money. And it reminds me a lot also too of a technical trading because in, in my business, we, we do a lot of technical trading and it's like, yeah, we can, we can be wrong 60% of the time and still make, you know, a 30% return because you just got to mitigate the losses on the losers and make sure that the winners really run. And so, you know, I know in speaking with you that you have sort of a multi-pronged approach. There are projects that you're developing projects that you're flipping some, you know, scripts that you're writing, like talk, talk to us about that a little bit.

David: Absolutely. Yeah. So, so parallel distribution, absolutely. Like we, we look at ourselves kind of, you know, we're Texas, right? Y'all street here. So we're, we're kind of wildcatting and you don't send someone out to just drill once and try to find some oil. You send someone out and he's drilling all over God's earth out there trying to find something. Right. So for us, or similar to, to, you know, VC investing, for us, we really do invest in as many projects that fit our content guidelines that meet the mission that we're after essentially. But that we think have real, real upside. So there will be singles, there'll be doubles, there'll be losses, but we hope that the ones that hit, you know, the, if you're, if you're making, if you're investing in 10 projects, we hope that that one or two that hit really run. And that's how, that's how, if you look at Hollywood, that's really how they succeed is they have the capital to be able to make enough projects where they get a couple of hits and that, that kind of carries everything else. And then in the longterm you start to build library value. Those things are relicensed and relicensed and relicensed. And every few years you relicense, you get another pop. So for us it is really important to have diversity of genre. So we're not just in any one genre. So we have, we have faith-based, we have adventure, we have action, we have shows, we have movies. Some are longer term plays, some are, some are shorter term flips. So there's different investment categories that we have there.

Tarek: Some have merchandising opportunities, some don't.

David: I'll give a couple of practical examples just to get, so people can understand. So on the TV side, one of the first things that we, we brought into the fund is a television show called Halo Heroes. And this is essentially, again, the user method. My brother and I were just lamenting over the fact that we have nothing good to show our kids. And we had just made this animated show for Netflix that got nominated for an Emmy. And my brother and I looked at ourself in the mirror and we went, we're the guys like we got to do this. We just did this. Like we got to do this. And our kids were watching Wild Kratts, which is for, if you've got kids out there or grandkids, it is like everything to kids these days. Like it is a show where essentially you have two brothers live action there. So they're in real life. They go see an animal and then it morphs into animation and they go on an adventure with that animal. It's harmless. It's like the one thing we can show our kids because you're just learning about animals. It's fun. They go on an adventure with an animal and they come back out at the end of the episode, back to live action. The two real brothers are there and they, um, teach you a lesson about, about the animal. It's harmless. Right. And we were just like, man, this would be incredible to have a show that's in this format, similar format. And lots of others have done it. Wishbone and, um, Adventures in Odyssey. Like there's lots of different stories that have this similar format of going back in history. Superbook. There's lots of them. Right. So he said, let's just, let's take this classic format and do it with the lives of Christian heroes, the saints. Like there's so much about our history that we don't know. Where did the Bible come from and how did that even get put together? And I've heard this Valentine's day. What is that? Was there a guy Valentine? Oh, whoa. He was St. Patrick's last week. Like what was his story? You know, Christmas. Who's that Nicholas guy? Like what's the story there. So we have a show where we have two brothers who are live action. They walk in the footsteps. So we'll go to the location of these saints. A lot of them are in Italy. We'll go to the live action location of these saints and for a minute or two, the brothers will walk in their footsteps and then it morphs into an animated journey where you go witness one of the saints and what they're going through and why they're saints. And you come back out and you learn a nice lesson. And it's all kind of being led by this mentor figure whose name is decks, uh, played by Jonathan Rumi, Jesus and the chosen. So it's me who I'm one of the stars. It's my brother who's one of the stars. And then we have Jonathan Rumi who's like this mentor and he sends us on these adventures and we get to witness. So it's, it's history. Um, it's spiritual formation cause you're getting to learn that these saintly figures are really accessible. They're real people struggling with real things, going through real problems. They're not these distant, distant beings that are made better than us or different than us. They're real people going through real problems. So we're, we're, we're actually in negotiations with a streamer right now to, uh, to, to make this show at a very high quality bar. And, um, that's our television show, right? So that's a show that is a clear audience and it's a show that has potential merchandising licensing. It's a, it's a show that I think could come into the home. I think in a way that, you know, Disney has came into all of our homes where you got the bedding, the pillows, the sheets, the, all that. I think these, I think it can come into the home and it can invite the child's imagination to bring these people to life, um, in their home, which is a healthy thing for kids. Uh, and of course you get a virtue at the end and you learn about vice and virtue and, and qualities that hopefully your kids will want to emulate about these various figures. So it's 10 episodes. Um, we're in negotiation with a streamer right now to make it happen. So I can't say who it is, but it's going to be very exciting. It's going to be free to watch and, uh, we hope everyone will watch it. And then on the other end of the equation, we have a big action movie that we developed called quarter main in the gates of hell, which is, um, the intellectual property is Alan quarter main, the novels, which are, um, uh, public domain, it's public domain right now. So anyone can make something on it, which is great, but it's, it was what was used to inspire Indiana Jones. So we kind of have our own take on it where we take in the, in the Bible, there's that, there's that phrase where Satan was cast from earth like a lightning bolt or cast from heaven, like a lightning bolt and struck the earth. And there's a real rumored place, which is where he struck and it's like hell on earth. Literally it's like in somewhere in Africa and extreme, there's tribe, crazy tribes living around there and the weather's nuts. And you basically have this kidded out Navy seal like hero who gets hired to go on an expedition through there. And it's a very, it's, it's Indiana Jones ish, but with a totally different look and feel as opposed to, you know, dusty top hat and whip, you have more of a kidded out elite operator, getting hired to put an expedition together to go through this hellish landscape. And he's not a believer. And along the way, it's this wonderful battle of faith versus reason that comes into play and double crossing and all the fun that you like from an action adventure genre with this like loosely religious theme in the background, which I think what made something in Indiana Jones special. So we, and we have everything in between. We have, we just sold another show at Disney. We have lots of things in between there that we're working on, but we have a diversity.

Tarek: So let's talk about that quarter main for a second. Cause when I'm thinking Indiana Jones, I'm thinking a hundred million dollar movie.

David: Yeah. Is this the kind of thing that you're going to put into production with, with the fund or. So that's a great question. So the, the fund is a certain size. So the fund is 25 million, which gives us enough leverage to achieve, you know, that, that diversity, the scale of diversity that we're looking for, we'll be able to make enough investments to have the ones that hit the ones that lose the ones that hit makeup for all of it. And then some, so we'll be able to achieve that, but we're not the ones writing the a hundred, the big checks for every single project. We want to create as much value as we possibly can with the amount of dollars that we have to leverage ourself in a great position to, to profit handsomely. And the deals vary. If you were to look at it like a, an oil and gas deal, you can, you can kind of speculatively purchase land and create some value there and then flip it. Or you can drill a couple of wells, start to get some luck and then you can hand that off to a producer. There's many different ways to make money, just like there, there isn't an oil and gas. So on a deal like quarter main, we spent the development risk. We took the early risk in, in creating the value in that property. And then we'll let someone come in and write that big check. And we get handsomely rewarded along that way for taking that early risk. So we get to carry interest in the deal. We get our money back in a return and carried interest in the deal. And then there's additional fees that go along along the way and we're creating a franchise. So it's something that we'll be a part of in the long term. So it's not just one movie. If they make it and it hits, we could be doing this for 50 years.

Tarek: I mean, And that process was actually going and developing the script. So you're, you're imagining it, you're going to a writer, an experienced writer, you have a finished product, and then you can go and start shopping that around to the studios.

David: And that creates leverage and that, and that's what you got to do in Hollywood. And a lot of people don't want to do that. They just want to pitch an idea, but the business is so hard these days that the more you can show up with like the, the, one of our, one of our board advisors always says, you know, they say, don't bring a knife to a gunfight. We bring tanks. So we want no, we want to leave no room for error on who's winning this thing. So we try to load up the, the, the IP with as much value as possible to where when we walk in there, it's, it's, it's irrefutable and irresistible. So we get a great writer, great script that's working, and then we try to package it with talent. So actors, producers, directors, that, that type of thing. So on quarter main, we risk X amount of dollars. There's a, there's a capped upside, there's a carried interest. And it's something that could create longterm value if it turns into the franchise that, that we, we think it does. And then on something like the television series, that's something that we could, we could have merchandising licensing. That's a longer term play, but something that could create big value because of the, the universe that a kid's Christian family show could establish. Sure. And with TV, you have library value. So if we get 10 episodes of first season and we do this for four or five years and we have 60, 70, 80 episodes by then, that creates a lot of value because then you have a huge piece of content that's very licensed, licensable all over the world.

Tarek: And so if you're going to, so you talk about the television series, you talk about developing scripts, developing ideas. You said, you mentioned you just sold a show to Disney. Is that right?

David: Yeah. Is that something you can talk about? Depending on when this comes out, because we just finished legal on it and they're going to make an announcement on it, but they haven't made an announcement.

Tarek: So we won't, we won't talk about it on this podcast.

David: This is like three weeks later we do it, but no worries. We finished legal on it. Literally last week we signed the deal.

Tarek: Now, if you decide that you're going to go ahead and take a film idea and put that into production, what are, what is sort of the sweet spot in terms of the, the size of the films that you're able to create?

David: You know, we were talking a little bit about this earlier, right? Like Hollywood has an economic problem right now because they spend so much on production and there's not, there's not a ton of return by way of box office because of overspending. However, if you're responsible with your spending, the money's there. You have movies all the time making a hundred, 200, 300, $400 million. The problem is the cost of making the movie was, was so big. And with a lot of the studio movies there, there is a ton of fluff in the, in the budgets. There's a lot of stuff that doesn't need to be there. That's there just for contingency or just for worst case scenario. You have these huge pieces of camera equipment that are just sitting there doing nothing for weeks that are 50, 60, 70 grand a day. And there's several of them just sitting there doing, doing nothing in case the director says, Hey, I want that, you know, super technical crane, bring that in here. I'm glad it was sitting around for five weeks so I could use it one day. And those come with a crew of seven people. And like, you know, there's, there's a lot of fluff. So I think there's not a problem with the amount of money coming into, into Hollywood of consumers. I think it's just a, it's a budgetary problem that we're running into. And I think there's a lot of technical advancements happening today that are bringing costs down. So that's actually really good. I think there's a very bright future by way of content creation because Hollywood is realizing this and they're figuring out how to make things more responsibly than they have in the past. Cause I think technology is, is, is helping expedite that. There's technology and there's also geographic diversification.

Tarek: So I, I had printed this out before the podcast, cause this was Rob Lowe is talking to Adam Scott on, on his podcast. And he said that had they filmed parks and recreation today, they would have ended up filming it in Budapest. And he says, it's so weird how nothing shoots in Los Angeles.

David: It's too expensive to shoot here.

Tarek: And then Rob Lowe says, there are no tax credits. All those other places are offering 40%. And then on top of that, there's other stuff that they do. And then that's not even talking about the union stuff. That's just the tax economics of it all. So it's criminal. What California and LA have let happen. It's criminal. Everybody should be fired. So this whole idea of tax credits, walk me through that. And how do you make a decision in terms of like where you're, you're filming and will you film everything in Texas going forward?

David: Well, I was just about to say, Texas has a massive, I think they just passed at least a hundred million dollar tax incentive. That's a, it's a big deal because again, Hollywood's kind of in turmoil, which I think is actually an opportunity. Cause you're, if, if, if you're doing this in the right way, you can emerge from it, a very strong, powerful force. But you know, the tax incentives are really big part of how you finance a piece of content. So let's say movie costs $10. If you shoot it in a certain place, you're going to get three or $4 back just, just by shooting there, just by bringing business to their economy, that brings the capital stack way down. You know, instead of having a $10 movie, you have a $6 movie. And then there's other things on top of the $6 you can do to get that down even further. So if you're smart, you can really try to reduce as much equity that you need in a piece of content as much as humanly possible. Like, like for instance which just makes your upside that much more, if you're able to reduce, you know, your, your exposure, you de-risk the project, like on our halo hero show. I won't use real numbers here. I'll just for confidentiality purposes, but let's just say it costs $5 to do the animation, right? Just the animated side of it is $5 because of where we're going to shoot it, which is a, which is a foreign country where we're going to actually do the animation, which will be, which will be a Ford foreign country. I'm most likely Canada actually based on the animators we're getting bids from. We'll be able to get like two and a half dollars off that five close, close to that, depending on if we get a couple other cultural grants, but two, two, two off that five. I mean, that's a big deal. That's a huge saving that we're getting right off the top on our piece of content. So now the overall value our hurdle to profitability is, is that much less. So that really juices a project in a very, in a very big way. So for people like us who, who, you know, with $25 million fund, it's enough to get meaningfully involved, but it's not enough to, to, to be like a huge, huge studio level who have billions of dollars, but it's enough to get meaningfully involved. We have to be really smart about that. We have to be really careful, very prudent over where we're shooting because we want to bring down that risk as much as possible so we can try to achieve as much upside and also get, get in at the lowest common denominator. Like just what does it cost to make the thing right and do it right. But, but do that at the lowest cost as possible. So that way you can prove it out. Like if halo hero season one works, we did it at a really low cost. The future is very bright. There's a ton of profit in that potentially for us. And it achieves our mission. Most importantly, like for us, we love that you invested through your foundation because for us there, there is a missional quality to this. You know, this is more than just getting into the stock market or, you know, there's, there's other ways for more guaranteed returns and when anyone who tells, tells you otherwise is, it's not true. This is Hollywood, but there's a mission here that's really important. So I love when, when some of the folks who've come in early into the fund have come in through their foundations, we've set up a mechanism to receive those kinds of dollars because there's a missional component here and we're not shying away from that. In fact, we're, we're, we're putting that, we're putting that forward, being very transparent about that. We want to make great stuff that has a great impact on the world.

Tarek: It makes me think of the comment you made earlier about going to Italy and looking at all of the beautiful artwork and you know, the Sistine Chapel and the Duomo and all of these, you know, incredible landmarks that have been handed down to us from ancestors from five centuries ago. And we talk a lot about wanting to leave your mark on, on this earth and leave your footprints behind. And what are we leaving behind us? My wife and I talk about that all the time. Certainly we're leaving behind a legacy in our children, but we want to hand something to them that is, is meaningful and want to feel like we have contributed positively to society at large. And, and I, I know others in the fund feel the same way and yeah, very, very excited to be a part of it. If, if people are interested in being in the fund or, or working with you, is that open to them?

David: Absolutely. Yeah. No, we're, we're actually, we're actually early on in our life cycle in the fund. We, you know, I want to say maybe six months now we've officially formed, you know, all the docs have been, been signed. We've taken in our first, our first investments. So we're actually, you know, six months into what will probably be, you know, another six, seven, eight months of, of raising. So there's definitely still room.

Tarek: So where can people go to find out more about the fund?

David: Novo pictures.com N O V O Novo, not Nova Novo pictures.com. There's a little email thing there. You can just send us an email and someone on our team will, will get back to you. But yes, we're, we're, we're, we're looking for like-minded individuals who want to make high quality content that can entertain and elevate with some of the best people in the business.

Tarek: As we wrap this up, what is the future for you? So you're still in your thirties. We have the fund, there's a vision there. What does that vision look like?

David: Yeah. I mean, you know, my hope is Novo will really become synonymous with, I think how, how Disney started and other big studios, the ambulance, the DreamWorks is up the world, that this will be a place where you'll know what you're going to get. You're going to be excited and you'll want to bring the whole family to sit and watch a piece of content for us. And our, our dream, our hope is that this first one goes well and everyone is, everyone is taken care of and they want to roll forward and they want to do it. They want to do it again and even bigger now. So I think we're really at the, at, at an exciting inflection point, but the beginning of yes, we've been doing it for 25 years and have made a lot of content. But we really are at the, at the beginning. So I'm very excited to be here and hopefully this thing will continue to snowball into something bigger.

Tarek: Well, I'm rooting for you, brother. Thank you, man.

David: Thank you, brother. Thank you. Thank you.