Ep. 27: Dustin Noblitt and Devin Marcum – CEO and President of Resistol

Devin: We love to develop our customers by being able to sit down face-to-face and explain to them what we are, what we do, what this product is. In an ad you have a hard time doing that, but in our social media and the way that we're doing things, the way everybody else is doing things now, it gives you the opportunity to create that message in a palatable amount of time and just say, here you go, here's 30-second snippet, look at this, and I think the whole world is benefiting from that, but if you're not doing that, that's where you're falling behind. And so he's spot on. You need to understand the media and how to get that out going that way, and the better social media companies, the better people that are doing it well, you're seeing that their brands are flourishing.

Tarek: Welcome to Y'all Street. Today I speak with Dustin Noblitt and Devin Marcum, the CEO and the President of Resistol. Dustin, Devin, you like a cup of coffee?

Devin: Sure.

Dustin: Yes, sir.

Tarek: Hey, coffee cheers to you guys.

Devin: Cheers. Thanks for having us.

Dustin: Cheers.

Tarek: Absolutely.

Devin: Just what we needed.

Tarek: I want to get started with the history of Resistol. Let's start there.

Dustin: Okay. Well, Resistol started in 1927. Two gentlemen, Byron Rolnick, came together, started the company, and moved the factory in 1938, moved it to Garland, Texas, where it resides today. Forty acre property, lots of buildings, lots of old buildings. And yeah, it's just a timeline of Americana, what the cowboy really is. They, in turn, sold it to a group from California, and then Levi Strauss bought that company.

Tarek: When was that?

Dustin: That was in the 50s, when they bought it. And they had it for quite a long time. And then a gentleman named Irving Joel purchased the company. And his goal was to, funny, it was all Resistol at the time, and Stetson Hats, which they were having some trouble. And Irving Joel was able to work out a deal with the Stetson group out of Philadelphia, and take on the manufacturing of Stetson. His goal was to actually bury the Stetson name and keep Resistol going. However, we all know Stetson's such an iconic brand worldwide, started in 1865, so he couldn't bury the brand. And to this day, we're all under one roof, running those two brands, along with Charlie One Horse. And so it's a fascinating turn of events to see those brands all work together throughout the world.

Tarek: There's probably just a handful of symbols that you can really point to that identify America. And the cowboy hat has really become one of those symbols. No matter where you go in the world, if you're wearing a cowboy hat, it stands for something. There's an identity that's attached to the cowboy hat. I'd like to talk a little bit about the cowboy hat, because on its face, it's sort of a unique-looking adornment. And so what is the history of the look of the cowboy hat? What was it originally intended to do? And there's so many different styles of cowboy hats. Maybe you can talk through some of the history of each of those.

Devin: Yeah.

Dustin: Yeah.

Devin: Yeah. I mean, you know, the cowboy hat, the unique thing about that is there isn't one style that's more correct than the other, right? It gives you the opportunity to be able to style it and wear it however you are. Different areas throughout the United States and throughout the world, and sometimes even through the state itself, you'll see people wearing their hats styled a little bit different. Even here, like in northern Nevada, you have the flat hatter look, right? And then you have a hat look that we wear here. And so it does change. But the whole concept of the cowboy hat, when John Stetson created the cowboy hat in Colorado, was they needed a functioning piece of headwear to help keep the warmth inside. So that's why you have, you know, when you put a cowboy hat on the crown, you have that distance from the top of the hat is to stop and hold hot air to keep you warm. They needed a brim. You know, there was hats out there, but nothing brimmed. And so the brim was created, of course, to ward you away from elements, whether that's the sun, the rain, the wind, however, and then it just started to evolve from then. So as it goes and it's there, it's giving you the protection. The thing that I find fascinating with cowboy hats is it's an iconic symbol. It's a way that you stand out. A gentleman, when I started in the industry, always said, hey, the man in the hat controls the room, right? And so I kind of thought that was a funny thing, maybe just because we're in the hat world. But you started to see people and you go places, Dustin and I travel all over. I had said, we'd love to go to New York, Chicago, because we get people come up and want to engage in conversations with us. It's a conversation starter. It's something that people are fascinated by, right? So people see it. They appreciate it. They want to understand a little bit more, kind of like the question you're asking now. And so we find ourselves, you know, in events like this, people don't talk about cowboy hats much, but as we're traveling all over, it never fails. We'll be sitting, having lunch or dinner, and there's groups of people that come over, start to engage, sometimes as simple as love your hat, love the way that it looks, or where are you from? And that's usually where it comes from. It's like, people just assume cowboy hat, you got to be from Texas, but Dustin, he's from California. I'm from Colorado. Cowboy hats are worn all over.

Tarek: Montana, Idaho, all over the country.

Devin: And so I think what's great about the cowboy hat now is it's really trending in a way where we're getting a lot more new hat wearers. And I think people give a lot of credit to Yellowstone, which credit is there. But I think, you know, COVID and other things force people to get outside to go seek things. I think what's happening in the country is causing people to seek and go back to generational roots. I think people have had an aspiration of being a cowboy, right? So whether I have the opportunity to own horses or cows or whatnot, I can wear a cowboy hat, right? So that may be my tie-in to being a part of a group or of an industry or something that I've had some sort of an appreciation for.

Tarek: Community, identity, that sort of thing.

Devin: So that cowboy hat gives me that buy-in, right? And what's fun is you'll see a new hat wearer comes in, a little intimidating, because like you said, it's a bigger piece of apparel that you're wearing, right? It's bigger brim, bigger crown. And so at first, you know, they kind of look in the mirror and like, I don't know about this.

Tarek: It's pretty bold.

Devin: But as soon as they get comfortable, smile goes across their face, they walk a little bit prouder, chest comes out a little bit more. And so all of a sudden, it gives them a way that they're transporting to this person that you want. So it is as cool as, you know, we're sitting here in Las Vegas and our hat booth is right across. You see our repeat customers or you see the new guy that comes in. Putting a brand new person in a cowboy hat and the way that they feel with it is great. It's a sense of confidence that comes from that you just can't explain anywhere else. And so the cowboy hat gives you an opportunity to customize it to make them feel comfortable. So when they're leaving, it's hard to go anywhere in this building and have something instantly customized. But the cowboy hat gives you that opportunity.

Tarek: You know, it was a pretty unique experience yesterday and you guys were generous enough to outfit me in this sweet Resistol. You know, most people, when they go online and they look at cowboy hats, they're already shaped. They come in all these different, you know, shapes and sizes. Or if they go into a store, what's neat about coming here to Cowboy Christmas is you're just essentially given the raw sample. It's literally like a brim and just a gigantic top to it. And to watch the craftsmen go and shape that with some steam into whatever shape or configuration that the individual wants is really, you know, it's really a form of artistry. It's pretty impressive. And I'm interested, I guess, in the manufacturing of the hat. Now, Devin, you started as a tech rep at Resistol. You've worked your way all the way up to being the president of the company. So I'd love to hear, I guess, just some of the details in terms of how a hat comes together, what the materials are that are used in the construction of the hat, and then hear a little bit more about your personal journey.

Devin: Yeah, so creating the cowboy hat is a very unique process. And being the hat manufacturers, there's really no hat manufacturers that own their own body plants. And we own our own body plant. We have closed it down as we're getting ready to relocate it and rebuild it in Garland, Texas. So that factory was in Longview. That process starts by buying raw fur, right? So people look at the cowboy hat, they come in, you know, what is this like glue to? People assume that the fur that's on there is adhered to something else, right? Whether that's plastic or not, but it's fur. And essentially the fur, you know, goes through a process of keratin where it causes it to have a bunch of split ends, essentially. And when it's being felted, it's hot water pressure. And those fibers are twisting, interlocking like this. And as it's felting, that body starts to shrink. So your first body is about this tall, this wide. And as it's going through that process, your final cone is about this big, this big. And at that point, it's one of the strongest textiles that you can have. Now you're going back through another process after that, where we're stretching out the brim, stretching out the crown. It goes through a pouncing process and that's where it's going through and being sanded. So the fur itself is a little long. And so it has to be sanded to get it into the finish that you're seeing here today. So it's three or four different steps on the pouncing side. And then it goes through a press, right? So we can press the open crown. We can press pre-creased hats, which comes out of the box shape, goes through and has special sweatband put in it, special liner cut in it. Hat band that goes onto it. It's the thing that we love when people come to Hatco and we get to show it because people leave truly amazed like, oh my goodness, I had no idea, no idea that all these hands went into it. No idea that it took this amount of time. It's, I think people feel like you press a button and it pops down like in a, like a 3d printer, but no, it's, it's all done by hand and it's done day in and day out. And I mean, we're fortunate. We have a lot of third, fourth generational employees that work for us. 10% of our workforce has over 40 years of experience.

Tarek: I was going to ask about that. How long does it take for you to learn the skills to be able to put a hat like that together?

Devin: You know what? I don't know if you ever stopped learning. I think you, uh, but it there for most people, it's about six months to being comfortable, right? I'm not going to say it at six month timeframe. You're just accelerating, but you feel comfortable. You know what you're doing. Um, but the people that we have in certain areas have been in those areas for 30, 40 years, and they're the best at it. And we want them there. They don't ever really want to leave that position. We utilize their knowledge for training upcoming people that are coming there, but they possess a lot of different working with cowboy hat. It's a raw It's a natural material. So they all don't necessarily work exactly the same. So you have to know different iterations of how you can process and get ahead through a to z. So that way it comes out and looks the exact same, but because of the natural fibers and the way that it's put together, the fur itself reacts differently. And so having the skillset that they have to do it is, you know, instrumental to us being successful. So that's why, I mean, when we say 10% is 40 plus years, I mean, we don't sleep on that at all. I mean, it's, we need these people here and them sharing it. So, um, we're fortunate that we have people that want to stay and continue to do it because they had the opportunity to be a part of the two largest hat companies in the world, right? So, uh, they smile from ear to ear when we come out here and people are wearing the cowboy hats. It's, uh, they're very, very proud of what they do.

Tarek: So that transition for you, were you actually making any of the hats or were you just supporting?

Devin: Yeah. So I just, I started, nope. Um, I mean, I've been through the process, you know, hundreds of thousands of times, but my, my, how I got to where I was today started, uh, being a tech rep. So I would go into all the boot barn stores and teach them how to merchandise hats. I'd teach them how to sell hats and ultimately how to shape heads, right? So as you go into a Western store, the easiest way to sell a hat is making sure somebody is there to be able to finish it. And by that shaping it to be customized. So for us, you know, having to take what's a priority to us, making sure that our product people can service and get out the door. Of course, I'll have to sell more hats is that's how I started. I would just go into all the boot barn location at the time there was 38. I think today they're close to 500. Um, I was in that position for two years. Um, then opportunity was presented to me to take over a sales territory. So I moved to Albuquerque, New Mexico. Um, I took care of Arizona, New Mexico, west Texas. I was in that for 10 to 11 months. Um, and then again, fortunate that opportunity was presented to me to move to Dallas, um, work out of the office as the national sales manager. Um, where I oversaw all of our sales reps, key accounts as in that position, uh, for 10 years. And then two years ago, um, our GM Ricky Bowen, you know, retired. Um, and I was, like I said, I was there and I was, you know, again, fortunate that I was offered the chance to, uh, be the president and steward of this company, which is a huge blessing to me. I remember the first day I sat down to, to interview. I said, ultimately my goal is to be the president of this company. I think a lot of people go in with that mentality, but I, I was trying to do everything I could to be there. Um, being able to work for Dustin is, uh, is one of the greatest things he's, he's kind of a guy that goes behind, you know, people don't see everything that he does, but he is, he's probably the best steward of this whole company for us. He's, uh, he's willing to invest in people that are coming up through the company. He gives support that you can't imagine. Uh, he allows us to do what we want to do. And he believes in, you know, we sit down at a table, we bring these ideas and it's not like, Nope, that's not what we're doing. He's like, okay, let's try it. Let's see what we can do. So being a guy that's been with the company now going on 16 years in position that I'm at, it is awesome being able to have a gentleman like him in your corner that you can bounce numerous of ideas. Um, and knowing that, yeah, a lot of the hat making stuff stays the same, but we need to be innovative. We need to change. We need to try different things. We can't be stagnant in what we've always done. Can't just say, Hey, we got the two biggest brand names. Let's just rest on our laurels and hope that they carry us. Um, so in the last two years, um, Dustin, myself, Sean O'Toole, our EVP and Tony Ferraro, CFO, we've had a very aggressive game plan of how do we eliminate this backlog that we've had? Cause we had a tremendous backlog of trying to get, how do we get that? How do we ensure that only we're getting the products?

Tarek: Was that backlog the result of what you use, the Yellowstone effect? Were you seeing this, this huge groundswell of, of interest in purchasing hats because of, of Yellowstone and I guess which coincided with COVID as well.

Devin: Yeah. I think that was, that was a huge part of it. And then the demographic of having lady headwear wearers come in. Um, and that, that group itself has went bananas, right? So they went from fashion hats. Now they're coming and wearing more of a traditional hat, what we're wearing now. And that lady consumer, instead of it just being a fashion piece that's here and gone, she's really bought it. And now she's a, she's a genuine hat wearer each and every day like us. So that our capacity, I mean, we were building 250 dozen hats a day out of our felt plant. We're building another 150 dozen hats out of our straw plant. And we still had a backlog. I mean, we sat and we're like, Hey guys, how are we going to do this? Um, well, we put a super aggressive game plan together. Uh, we said, Hey, we're going to do what we got to do to ensure that our end consumers can have our product and uh, it's paid off dividends. Um, but we had to think differently than we've had in the past and do things that we, we probably never would have, but thank goodness we did.

Tarek: Dustin, let's talk a little bit about the relationship between Resistol and Stetson. You have the two biggest hat companies in the world. It's like owning both Coke and Pepsi. So how, how do you think about the two different brands? How do you manage the two different brands and how do you allocate resources? Yeah. Is Stetson's goal to be number one?

Dustin: Absolutely. Yeah. And so is Resistol, and even Charlie One Horse. So yeah, it's a, no, we, we treat them separately. Uh, I mean, of course the manufacturing is pretty much the same process. Uh, but the, uh, we, we treat them separately.

Tarek: What's the difference between the two brands?

Dustin: Uh, I mean, it's just market share really. I mean, it's just, um, yeah, we've always treated Resistol as core cowboy. That's what it was known more real core cowboy. And, and Stetson was so worldly known. Uh, you have the fedoras and all those, uh, you know, LA influence, New York influence, um, European influence that, you know, very diverse. So, um, but we've seen more even, even Stetson brand and Resistol, you know, that core value and core authenticity. Um, it's everybody's drawn to that. And, uh, so it's, it's fun to watch both those brands just compete back and forth. And it, you see in certain parts of the area, you know, the United States, even certain parts, more Resistol sells, other, other areas, more Stetson sells. So it's just fun to fun to actually, from my, my perspective, just to see how they, how they bounce back and forth.

Tarek: So really it's just a brand preference.

Dustin: Yeah. That's what I would say. It's a brand preference. And even though they're both spent, we spend a lot on marketing. Um, they, they both, uh, seem to do well in, in certain demographics. So yeah, it's just preference.

Tarek: Now you're a California cowboy.

Dustin: Yeah.

Tarek: Rancher Roper. And, but you got your start in the wine business. Is that right?

Dustin: That's correct. So I, uh, uh, maybe even tear back a little farther, grew up farm farming and ranching family. Um, dad and grandpa always working for somebody else, uh, managing their properties, ranches. And, uh, so I was fortunate to get into college through a family friend's mother. Um, I was just cowboying for a couple of years on a ranch, uh, in, in Santa Maria. And, uh, her son, she was worried about him going to college. So she's like, I've got a, I've got a opportunity for you. And I was like, okay. She said, you go take care of my son. Uh, cause he's going to need help. Uh, and you can live for free. I'll pay for you to live here. If you'll go back to school and huge turning point in my life, uh, to be able to go do that. So went back, look at my, my checkbook and had 800 bucks in it. So I was like, you know, I probably should go back to college. And, uh, from there I went to a, uh, it was a junior college. Was there only a year, got a scholarship, rodeo scholarship to Cal Poly out in San Luis Obispo. And, uh, that was like another game changer. Uh, animal science degree. I looked at that, that was my wheelhouse. Uh, but crop science is what I needed to get into because the, the wine business was just booming out there.

Tarek: And what year was this around?

Dustin: This was in the nineties. So 95 to 98 that I was at Cal Poly. And, uh, so I studied crop science and got a pest control advisor's license through the state to walk fields. And, uh, so as soon as I graduated, got a job with a chemical company. Um, it was called Western Farm Service at the time. Just so happens Caymus was leasing a ranch, uh, in Santa Maria area and they were starting, uh, Conundrum and, um, Bell Gloss, Pinot. And so pretty high in wine.

Tarek: Very.

Dustin: Yes. And I, I was not a wine drinker. Didn't even really understand it. Didn't even like it.

Tarek: I don't know a lot of cowboys that are wine drinkers.

Dustin: But, I understood farming and, uh, so I was walking their fields, taking care of them, made a lot of recommendations. So two years into it, all of a sudden I get a call from the office and they said, the owner of Caymus is flying in. He would like to meet you at the, at the ranch. So I said, okay, head out there. And sure enough, Chuck Wagner steps out of the car and he looks at me and he's like, well, you're young. And I said, yes, sir. I said, you know, I've been farming my whole life, but he's like, well, I like what you've done with the, with the grapes here. Um, do you ever want to work internally, you know, for a company? And I was like, well, I've got a small family. I just got married and I had my first child. And he's like, well, I think it'll be worth your while if you, you know, and no money like that was ever, you know, Napa money. It was just so much more than, than where we were from. So I took the job and yeah, it was a great experience.

Tarek: And what did you do there?

Dustin: So I was, uh, they're viticulturists and then became the director of farming for them. So everything from Napa, Sonoma, Monterey County, and then Santa Maria, Santa Barbara County. They also had table grapes in Sonora, Mexico down in Hermosillo. So I would go down there a week a month for six months and walk, walk those fields and give them recommendations on what to do. And, uh, you know, they'd have 400 people out there picking the grapes and, um, you know, sending them up, up to, to the States.

Tarek: What was your, your, what were your biggest learnings from that experience?

Dustin: Uh, I think just people skills, learning how to manage people at a young age, you know, you've, you've got all those, um, laborers, you know, an ag and, uh, different little managers at each ranch. So developing relationships with them and, uh, are you bilingual? I studied four years in high school, a couple of years in, uh, college, but I learned more out in the field than anything. I've lost, lost my touch there just because you don't, if you don't practice it, you, uh, but I can get by if I, if I go to Cabo now, I can, by the second day I can talk to him pretty well.

Tarek: So very cool. And then, uh, what prompted you to leave?

Dustin: Uh, really it was, uh, my ex-wife. No, she, um, we, we were, um, trying to keep a marriage together. And, uh, so I, she blamed it on my travel and which it really turned out it wasn't the travel. So, um, so I, I left Caymus, uh, to take a seed company job, which was local and, uh, what gallon seed and sell, sell vegetable seed to farmers there. And, um, so that, uh, that ended and, uh, at age 30, I got on the, uh, Ranchero ride, Rancheros visitadores and it's out in California. Guys from all over the world really come there and it started in 1930. And I'd always heard about it growing up out there and had, had some of my dad's friends were involved. And it was something I was always aspired to, to be on, uh, people like Walt Disney, Ronald Reagan, you know, and you have all facets of doctors, lawyers, construction, cowboys, you know, all facets of life come for this one week and it's like a cowboy fraternity.

Tarek: Yeah.

Dustin: So, uh, getting on that ride, you have to be a minimum of 30. It was fortunate to get on and I met, was introduced to Dennis Carroll. Dennis Carroll was from Chicago and owned Hatco, Resistol, owned Cactus Brands, uh, Fastback as well, Helomatic. And, uh, he was enamored just going back to the cowboy lifestyle and Western lifestyle, Chicago businessman who came out to that California ride and it changed his life. He just wanted to be a part of it so much that he sold his, his tech companies and everything and bought Western companies, just wanted to be a part of it. So some reason, uh, we hit it off. I mean, he's much older, he's, he's 87 this year. And, um, so I was fortunate to go to work for him in 2011 and, uh, work hand in hand with him, overseeing all the businesses and, uh, slowly just taking over, taking over and came to a point he didn't really have a succession plan. And, uh, so I was talking to him about, you know, opportunity to, to buy him out. And I was fortunate that he, he allowed me to do that. So here we are.

Tarek: Uh, so here we are. What is the next five years look like for the hat business?

Dustin: You know, I see we're, we're being aggressive. I, I just want to see our brands continue to be successful, uh, love the Western culture. And I think if we can introduce that to more and more people, uh, I think as a whole, even the United States and all that, you know, this younger generation, getting them involved and, and used to what this culture is about and this lifestyle, uh, our slogan, we live it every day. Um, some, some competitors have used that against us that, Oh, you don't have to wear a hat. You don't have to live it every day to wear our hat, but that's not what that's about. It's about just identity. Um, yeah. And living it in your heart, you know, whether it's construction worker or, you know, it doesn't matter restaurant person, doctor, lawyer, what they do, they live their job every day, but when they come home, they have passion for our, our Western heritage. And it's about a handshake about looking somebody in the eye and, uh, and being honest and, you know, taking care of one another.

Tarek: Do you have an international footprint?

Dustin: We do. And it's growing. Yeah. Stetson's always had a large footprint, but, uh, Resistol is really, um, gained a lot of ground. So we, we, we stay pretty aggressive with that. And, and we see a lot more, um, Europeans wanting to, wanting to wear, wear American cowboy hats. It's, it's pretty cool.

Tarek: Yeah. Devin, I want to go back to, um, the manufacturing again for a moment, if I could, because I just, I'm, I'm thinking about these, these beaver pelts, and I'm just wondering like, where, where would you get beaver pelts?

Devin: So that's a great question, right? So we buy all of our fur from all over the world. Um, beaver fur is predominantly bought out of Canada. Um, and they buy it in a, in a market, right? So they go, there's pelts that are laying there, there's different grades. Uh, there's, it's a commodity essential, essentially. Um, and so they'll go and buy the, the pelts that are needed for the year. And then they come back and it goes to that process where all the, the fur comes off. Um, you know, in cowboy hats besides just beaver fur, you have rabbit fur and everything. The Europeans, that's where we get most of the rabbit fur. Rabbit fur in the European market is consumed like we eat chicken, right? So it's a by-product. Um, or you have Argentine hair, which is a wild trapped rabbit from Argentina. But that meat is also, that fur is being shipped to Europe. Europeans are buying it. So that's mostly where your fur is coming from. So you have your beaver that's coming from Canada. You have your rabbit fur coming from the Europeans. Um, and then of course, when you're going to make your hat, you throw in your little special recipe, determining on how much beaver fur you're going to put in there versus rabbit fur. Are you putting back fur of the beaver in there? Are you putting belly fur of the beaver in there? What does that mix look like? And that leads you to, you know, the whole X game that's out there in cowboy hats. There is no standard. You know, people always ask like, Hey, if I have a 50 X, is it a 50% of that hat being beaver or not? Um, some manufacturers, they do it that way. Some other manufacturers don't, but there is anything out there that says, Hey, if you're going to make a six X hat, it must consist of X, Y, and Z. Um, that's everybody's special proprietary blend. And of course we have ours.

Tarek: Um, so for those listening who don't know what you're talking about as far as 6X, 50X, 3X, walk through the, the sort of the classifications of hats.

Devin: Yeah. So for our brands, I can speak to our brands. Um, for us, as you, when you hit into a 6X for us, that is a 100% fur felt hat, right? So there's no wool component to it. And then you're going to start there with all rabbit fur. And as you start to increase the X number, your fur quality is going to increase, right? So it could be a six to a seven, you know, something small like that, but you're going to now start adding better quality rabbit fur, um, different types of rabbits that are there. And as for us, when you start to get into your 10 X and above, now we're going to start to blend in beaver fur, right? So beaver fur is the, is the hatters choice, um, a fur to add into it. Um, of course beaver fur is pricey. So as you start to add more and more beaver fur, the price of your hat goes up. But as we start to elevate and go into our X's, our rabbit fur component starts to increase. And then our rabbit, not rabbit for our beaver fur component starts to increase. And then it starts to change on where we're actually getting the beaver fur from. Is it coming from the back? Is it coming from the belly? The belly fur from the beaver is the most ideal has the best, most luxurious feel. Um, there's other components that you can add into it on our Diamante. We have a mixture of some chinchilla that goes in there. Um, and that's it. There's not adding any structure value to it. It's giving it a better hand or a better feel. It just makes it feel soft when you're putting it on. Uh, but the integrity and the strength of the hat is going to be coming from your beaver fur aspect. And then as you start to throw in some of the Argentine hair furs for that really gives a hat, a lot of strength and durability. It felt really, really tight. Um, so in some of your inferior fur that you're using, sometimes you'll add a little bit more Argentine hair fur, to give you a little bit more structure, everything for us leading up to a 6X is going to be a wool. So wool is, it goes through a felting process, but instead of it being felt like this, it's pressed, right? And so as we're pressing it down, getting it, um, and it goes through a little bit more of a stiffening process, a wool hat is a great hat. It just isn't going to have the longevity that a fur felt hat is. The, the fur felt, the felting actual process of it gives that hat a lot more longevity. And as you start to use better quality furs, the felting process itself becomes tighter and tighter, leading us into a better cowboy hat.

Tarek: Now, what about the, uh, summer hats? So straw palm leaf. Um, can you talk a little bit about, again, you know, thinking about our, our audience not maybe being familiar with cowboy hats, what are the seasons and how do the hats change during those seasons for those wearing cowboy hats?

Devin: Yeah. So, I mean, there is seasonality, right? We sell hats for every season. Um, but there's, there are a lot of guys just so everybody knows there's a lot of people out there wearing a fur felt hat all year round is okay. Wearing a straw hat is okay, but people in the winter time, they're like, why are you wearing a straw hat? It's not as warm, right? And so the whole concept is I'm going to wear a felted hat, whether that be wool or fur in the winter time to give me, create heat, right? And help me stay warm. And a straw hat isn't going to allow that. It's going to do the opposite, allows you to be protected. That's why you wear it in the summertime to give us, you know, a little bit more ventilation, a little, um, lighter, a little bit cooler. Um, but on the straw side of things, like you were alluding to, we have a palm leaf hat, um, which it's a heavier hat. It's durable, but it's heavy. It's a little bit hotter, um, price pointed, you know, pretty entry level price. Uh, not going to be spending a tremendous amount of money. Um, and then you go into a Bangora, which is a machine woven straw hat, uh, great looks, uh, but not, not nearly as aesthetically pleasing as a Shantung hat is going to be. And with the Shantung, that is a hat that is hand woven. Um, so a lot of your better straw hats that you'll see the straw hat bodies. Um, there's not anywhere else in the world you can buy a Shantung body besides China. And they do weave them by hand there. Uh, they sit in little rural villages, um, at a table, kind of like we're sitting at today and they sit and they weave these bodies. They, they're so talented at it. When you see the bodies of what goes into it, you're blown away that this little lady will say here, look at each other, be doing this, the pattern that they can weave into how tight they can do it. But as they start to change the straw width, which is the boo of the straw. So, um, a much smaller boo hat is going to be a tighter weave, more challenging, um, more room for error because it does show more blemishes if they're there, is going to cost you a whole lot more. So in, in the straw world, when I started in, in the hat industry 16 years ago, you know, a straw hat would retail for 50, $60. Now we're at a point where that straw hat today is 200 plus dollars, right? So it has changed. Um, and a lot of people would use straws, you know, go through two a year, throw them away a little bit more disposable as far as cost goes. Uh, but now that they've increased and we've tried to do our part of educating people on what goes into it. Um, I would say even people in our company, myself, you know, as one at first, until you really see what goes into it, the appreciation for it, you know, probably wasn't there. Now you see it, you wear that straw hat a little bit longer. You take care of a little bit more. Um, just because from what we hear is that is something that isn't being passed down generation to generation. The, the lady that is building those hats, they're aging out, they're becoming elderly. They're really not wanting to do it. And their daughters aren't really necessarily wanting to take that on. Now, I don't think we're going to run into an instance where we're not able to get straw hats anytime soon, but I think it is, it's on the horizon. It could happen. Um, so we're, we're trying to figure out how we can, uh, navigate around that obstacle. Um, trying to be ahead of that game. We don't want to be at that point and be like, okay, now that we can't get it, what are, what are we going to do? So as we sit around, we're having conversations on how we can be creative and address that issue far before it becomes an issue.

Tarek: How many employees do you have in Garland?

Devin: We have 400.

Tarek: 400. Wow. Pretty, pretty sizable operation. I guess, like you were saying that so much of this is done by hand, um, and, and done with craftsmen. And, uh, you know, as, as you talk about this idea of aging out and thinking about where the next generation of craftsmen is going to come from, you know, it's, it's gotta be a challenge. I know that we face it at, uh, Kaspar Companies, our parent company as well. And on the manufacturing side, it is, we're, we're losing a lot of that apprenticeship type, uh, you know, um, transition that you see from, from one generation to the next. I want to transition to pop culture. Um, you know, we come here and Resistol everywhere and, you know, famous country music singers, some of the best athletes, you know, Cody Webster, who we both sponsor. Um, I just recently saw a music video with Cody Johnson, uh, called The Fall, which is a great song. And, you know, you see the opening shot, actually let's show this on the pod. So you see in that opening shot Resistol front and center. I'd like you to talk about that, what your strategy is, your relationship with these influencers, um, how important that is for the, the, the brand identity and, um, you know, just what, what your plans are there.

Dustin: Sure. Um, I mean, we've been very fortunate that, um, you know, we've ran, been at the right place at the right time, introduced Cody and I became good friends. Um, several years ago, he came out to that Ranchero ride that I was talking about. And he was just, uh, you know, before he was the Cody Johnson, he was just a young man up there taking his turn, playing some songs. And it was like, but his voice just stood out and we had a great conversation, shook hands, told him I'd take care, you know, send him a hat. And the rest is history. We exchanged numbers and we've been talking weekly ever since. So, um, things like that, we, we've got, you know, Riley Green and, you know, just been fortunate to, to know the right players in, in certain industries, uh, get introduced. And I think we're fortunate with our brands that they want to wear them. I can't cause it makes them feel authentic being with an authentic company and iconic brand. So, uh, that's nice to know that they, uh, they want to be a part and be with us.

Devin: Yeah. I think that, I think that everybody that we have, um, understands our business understands that we are a large hat manufacturer, but we're a really small family feel company. Um, and in the Western way of things, I think people appreciate the, how our businesses, I think it's able to relate. And so, you know, that's what we always say. We live it every day. These are guys that also want to live it every day. And so, no, we have been fortunate to have a guy like Cody Johnson and no, he's getting up on stage talking about the brand. We're not paying Cody Johnson to talk about the brand. Cody Johnson's up there talking about the brand because he loves the brand and what it stands for. Um, you know, Laney Wilson, she's another one for us, George Strait. I mean, and these are people like with George Strait himself, our deal with him to this day is a handshake agreement.

Tarek: Um, and so Texas handshake.

Devin: Yeah. And so it's something, and we, you know, we hold that near and dear and we would never jeopardize that because it means the world to us. That's, that's how I was brought up. That's how Dustin was brought up. You know, you shake somebody's hand and a deal is a deal and they've all, you know, they're passionate about the brand just like we are. So it, it makes it easy having individuals like that. And I know you're going to have Cody Webster on, on a podcast and he's a guy, I mean, he loves the brand. And every time we go out and see about, we can have a conversation about anything, but they would, they would do anything for us in our brand, uh, because they love it, but they know on the flip side, we would do anything, everything for them. And so wherever look at it as like sponsorships, we'll always look at it as partnerships, um, and how we can really benefit using this together. And I think being in this world, the music world, the rodeo world, everything else, and having solid partners there with you makes it a whole lot easier, especially when things become challenging.

Tarek: I was, uh, talking yesterday with, uh, Dale Brisby and he was saying that, you know, every company really needs to start as a media company. Um, and, and I think what he meant by that is essentially the importance today of being able to get your message out to the public and tell your story out to the public. You've been around the company a long time. You have seen this huge transition in terms of both online, social media and influencers and so forth. Um, has that affected your strategy at all?

Dustin: Yes. I mean, it was funny. Um, when I first went to work for Dennis, um, you know, he was very old school, uh, way of doing business. It always worked for him very successful at it, but he didn't understand the online and where it was heading. And it's hard to educate that was a generational gap. And, and most of the managers at that time too, you know, had their retail stores and this is how we operate and this is what we're supposed to do. And you know, we talk about social media and they're like, excuse me, what? And, uh, so it took, it was a process. And I think we were actually somewhat late to the game because I couldn't get them to bite off on it fast enough. Once we did, it's been, it's amazing, you know, what getting your message out there and what you've seen just in the last two years on social media and how, how you have to train, you know, change how you're, you're getting your message across and, and people's attention span, which would maybe not be a good thing, but their attention span is so it's not there anymore. So you have to give them blast to draw their attention. And then, then you can engage once you have their attention, but it's a, it's an amazing transformation that's happened in this digital world. And, uh, I mean, that's why we've got a young team in there now that understand it. And they're, uh, I remember my daughter was in high school and sitting at a table and I was getting ready to head to, to, uh, the hat company and we're having dinner. She's like, dad, uh, by the way, you guys are posting at the wrong time. I'm like, what are you talking about? And she's like, well, no, you need to be posting at this time. This is what you need to be doing. This is why. So these people will, you know, you catch our attention at this time. And then also this time at breakfast and this time, you know, I'm like, really?

Tarek: So that's why I'm thankful we have Gabby over here. She, she handles all of that for us.

Dustin: So I go to a meeting, you know, a few days later and I go, Hey, by the way, you guys are posting at the wrong time and you need, and they're like, where did this come from? Like, how do you know about that? So you've got to have the young, young generation in there that, that understand it. Cause that's where it's, it's all been. And it's all heading that way for sure.

Devin: Yeah. I mean, I think Dale's statement of having a media presence is nobody's looking at magazines anymore. And I mean, you can have the most beautiful ad and I'm not saying that they don't work, but being able to have your own social media or being able to be on a podcast like this, where we're able to reach out and talk about our brands to people that are curious about it and not having them have to develop their own idea of what your brand is by looking at a beautiful ad. We have the opportunity. Cause I mean, we love to develop our customers by being able to sit down face to face and explain to them what we are, what we do, what this product is in an ad. You have a hard time doing that, but in our, in our social media and the way that we're doing things and the way that everybody else is doing things now, it gives you the opportunity to create that message and a palatable amount of time and just say, here you go. Here's 30 seconds snippet. Look at this. And I think the whole world is benefiting from that. But if you're not doing that, that's where you're falling behind. And so, um, he, he's spot on. You need to understand the media and how to get that out going that way. And the better social media companies, the better people that are doing it. Well, you're saying that their brands are flourishing. Um, do you have opportunity to just really hone in on your customers and let them understand what you're trying to do? So I think that's probably one of the best things I've heard him say.

Tarek: Well, I'm proud to be a customer and I know a lot of our employees are customers of yours and love your products. Love that you're in Texas. And, uh, and in closing, I got each of you a, a Y'all Street coin and a Texas coin being a Texas company. You got to have one of these. And I also in Garland, I got you this Dallas Fort Worth GoldBack for each of you. One, one thousandth of an ounce of gold. So you get that thing rolling out of here with some gold and silver.

Devin: Very cool.

Dustin: Thank you so much.

Tarek: My pleasure. Dustin Devon. Thank you.

Devin: Thank you for having us on, allowing us to tell you a little bit more about what we do. We greatly appreciate it.