Ep. 16: Sandy and Shannon Stephens – 7k Roping

Shannon: you know, the, the sales were coming in slowly, but steadily and then increasing. And so what we started to say is I have, uh, I had an excursion Ford excursion and, um, I figured out you can get 11 of those suckers in that.

Sandy: I think I've got a 13.

Tarek: Does that count the roof?

Shannon: So we were getting pretty big time when I'd fill up the excursion and then it got to where, all right, I'm going to pull my horse trailer. Now I could get like 40 in there.

Tarek: Welcome to Y'all Street today. We speak with Sandy and Shannon Stephens, Seven K Roping, a cup of coffee or a tea. We got a special tea for you and we got you these, we got you the special team mug, a roping team mug. And I got to tell you this story. So Evan and I got the shipment in and we get these black mugs and, and we're thinking what the heck they sent us the wrong mugs. We got these roping mugs for our, our roping guests, but sure enough, these are, these are magic mugs and evidently with the heat it changes the, uh, the exterior so that, uh, the roping shines through. So I'm really happy about this. Although this might not be hot enough.

Sandy: Might have to go microwave.

Tarek: Yeah. We might need to go mike this, but anyway.

Sandy: Oh yeah. I can see it. No, there it's coming through. It's just taking a little bit. Look at that. And that awesome.

Tarek: Cheers y'all.

Sandy: Thank you.

Tarek: Welcome to Y'all Street.

Sandy: I appreciate it. Wow.

Tarek: That's cool. There you go.

Shannon: Appreciate the tea accommodation.

Tarek: Anytime. You're the first guest with teas.

Shannon: I'm one of those strange people that don't drink coffee. Never have drank coffee.

Tarek: Why is that?

Shannon: I don't know. I just don't like coffee. I don't like the flavor. I don't like coffee, ice cream, none of it. No caffeine or I'll drink caffeine. Yeah. Just not coffee.

Evan: Interesting.

Tarek: Well, I, it's funny because you know, when I moved to, I'm from the Northeast, so everybody in the Northeast drinks coffee. There's a Dunkin Donuts in every corner where I grew up. And I moved down to Shiner, Texas and nobody drinks coffee. Hardly anybody does. It's all sweet tea. They wake up in the morning and they get their sweet tea and they dump a pound of sugar in it and they're ready to go. So, well, I am a, I'm delighted to have you on the program today. Thank you so much for, for taking the time. And so I want to get into your, you have a ranch in Marfa and you live in Prosper. And so walk me through, I guess the, the, the background of your family. And from what I understand, you have a long lineage in history in Texas. So let's just start there. Pioneers.

Sandy: I do. We have a very long and proud history. So my grandparents, my grandmother's family and my grandfather's family each settled on ranches in Presidio County. My grandmother grew up in an old fort that was established out there. And my grandfather's family traded a general store that they had in Bankedie, Texas to, for the ranch out in Presidio County, between Marfa and Presidio.

Tarek: And so, So this is North Texas near Big Bend.

Sandy: Well, South, Southwest Texas or far West. Oh, okay. So you know where El Paso is?

Tarek: Yeah.

Sandy: It's not even close to

Evan: All the way over there. Eight hours from every town.

Tarek: I'm geographically challenged.

Evan: Just eight hours from.

Sandy: Yeah. So if you follow the river, the Rio Grande down from El Paso, it's a couple of hundred miles. And at times my grandparents' ranch was almost all the way down to the, to the Rio Grande. So very expansive desert, mountainous terrain area. My grandparents, when they met courted is the word they used to use. My grandfather had a horse that was trained to ride that he could ride at night and just sleep while the horse was going over to to her place. But the, how they communicated was via telephones that were connected by the fence that happened to go all the way to each other's homesteads. And so as he was riding to go visit her coming back, he would check the fence line to make sure the wires were all connected. So they communicate by phone.

Tarek: Unbelievable. What year was this?

Sandy: This would have been back in the maybe forties

Tarek: In the 1940s. That's how they were still communicating. Look at where we are today in 2020 and we're facetiming people in China.

Sandy: So anyway, I grew up you know, out on the ranch there spent some time in in El Paso with one of my father as well. But they had two daughters. My mom had three boys. I have two brothers. And then my aunt had three girls. And so there were six of us grandchildren. And when we were born, the grandparents, our grandparents would give us a calf and subsequently on our birthdays. And the deal was the business arrangement was that if the calf then grew into a cow that had a heifer calf, then the child got to keep the calf and put their brand on it.

Shannon: Which is a girl calf, girl calf for people who don't know what a heifer is.

Sandy: And if it was a bull calf, then that would go to the ranch for paying the expensive expenses so the kids could build up their herd. At the same time, when each child was born, they were also given a brand. And the brand that I was given was the 7k brand. And my brother's name is, my older brother's name is Cleet. His brand is C slash. My mom's name was Amy. She had a rocking a, my younger brother got half circle V, which is her rock and a turned upside down. The 7k kind of appeared out of nowhere. I think the story is that they were living on a ranch in Montana at the time. My parents were when I was born and there was a 7k iron there and they thought, Hey, that would be a good brand. And I like to think that maybe them giving me that brand gave me 7,000 ideas to work towards in the future.

Tarek: I think as we talk today, we're going to talk about some of those 7,000 ideas. And and so Shannon, are you from Texas as well?

Shannon: So I actually was born in Michigan really. And so I lived childhood in Michigan. So I'm well versed in snow and all of that. But we moved down here me with my family when I was a child to the North Texas area.

Tarek: And so why did they move?

Shannon: They moved because my father actually was a builder and the recession hit hard in Michigan at the time. And so he said, I'm just going to come in. Texas was booming. And so he said I'm just going to go to Texas for a few months until the recession lifts. And so he came down and found a lot of success and the recession didn't lift in Michigan. But even so, the rest of us followed in six months and we kept all of our house. We had a cabin and all that up there because we were planning to return. Oh, we never returned because Texas is great and the economy is great and it's been great to us. And after you live here for a while, you think why would I want to live anywhere else?

Tarek: Amen to that.

Shannon: So we, so I've lived down here most of my life and um, I didn't, we didn't live on a ranch, the scale of what Sandy grew up on. But um, we did, I did grow up, you know, having cattle and horses and all of that.

Evan: So your, your dad went from living up in Michigan to coming down here and not just coming down here and like finding a nice suburban home, correct. Like getting cattle.

Shannon: Correct.

Evan: How did that happen?

Shannon: He was always a cowboy at heart, believe it or not. So even up there, um, he was born and raised in Toledo, Ohio, and he was the one in cowboy boots and all of that. So he was always a cowboy at heart. Um, and then when we got to Texas and he had the opportunity, it was just a natural progression because that's what he always felt like he was anyway.

Tarek: And he'd never had any cattle up until that point. So he just dove right in.

Shannon: Yes.

Evan: I would like to think I'm a cowboy at heart.

Tarek: Yeah. Well, we'll see. We'll see Evan. The longer you live in Shiner, the more cowboy you become.

Evan: I'm getting there. Yeah, exactly.

Tarek: So Sandy, you had mentioned that your parents were in Montana. What was the connection there? How did they end up in Montana when you had roots in Texas?

Sandy: So, um, my other grandfather, um, was also in the cattle business and he purchased, um, quite a bit of livestock from Mexico and he would import it and, um, disperse it to, um, ranch lands from Northern New Mexico and Colorado, Wyoming, all the way up into, uh, into Montana. And so he hired at one point my parents to manage the operations of one of the ranches around Billings.

Tarek: So how much of your time did you spend in Texas?

Sandy: So I was actually born in Alpine and, um, my parents were living in, um, uh, Presidio. So that Montana ranch gig was, um, sometime right after that time that I was, uh, uh, born there. Um, but, um, and it was Miles City now that I think of it, Montana. Um, but I, um, lived in Presidio County up until, um, I was eight years old when my mom passed away and then moved to El Paso to live with my father. And so I was raised by my father and my grandparents after I was eight years old.

Tarek: It must've been a tough experience for you.

Sandy: It was, but I had a great support system. My grandparents loved me and my dad and stepmom loved me. And I had two brothers and, uh, not too long after I had a little sister as well. And, um, so, um, and you know, I inherited in all of that, me and my brothers inherited a ranch that, you know, my mom owned. So I had a herd of cattle and I had a ranch and my grandparents like, Hey, you realize you got to figure out how to take care of this stuff.

Tarek: So, so, so for those, you know, we have a global audience. So for those listening from around the world, what's it like for a young man growing up on a ranch? What was it? What was your day-to-day life like?

Sandy: Uh, that's a, that's interesting. That's a, that's a great, um, question. Um, it's a lot of, it's a lot of responsibility. Um, but my grandfather, my grandparents, um, and my dad, they, they led by example. Um, they worked hard, worked very hard. Um, when they first got married, they, uh, built a rock house and lived in it and, um, shot rabbits to, um, live off of, you know, and so everything that they, the, the cattle herd, the, the Ramuda, the horse herd that, um, they developed was all out of their own hard work. And so I, me and my brothers have always tried to, you know, follow their example, um, in the interest of, you know, um, our own interests, but for, uh, showing our kids, you know, how they should live their lives.

Tarek: There, there was a, uh, I imagine a pretty deep sense of survival that your survival was directly connected to the work that you were doing day in and day out. And, you know, I think today that we're kind of removed a little bit from that. We're a little coddled as it were.

Sandy: Absolutely. And, uh, raising cattle, um, over, uh, an expansive acreage like we had, you needed to, um, be one with your horse, um, so that you could, uh, you know, gather them and work them brand them and earmark them because it's wide open country. And if they got through the fence and you didn't have your marks on them, then, um, you probably weren't ever going to see them again. There's a good chance they would end up in Mexico. And there's a interesting story. Um, me and my brothers were helping gather on a, uh, a lower part of the ranch, not too far from, uh, from the Rio Grande river. We call it the Black Hills Creek. Hills are kind of black and it's very formidable territory, hard, hard riding, lots of rocks. Well, anyway, I came across, you know, my brothers came across this maverick bull. This maverick is unbranded. And, um, we figured it was one of ours. It looked like the breed of cattle that we were raising. And so, um, we, uh, I decided I'm going to rope that, um, maverick bull and we're going to, you know, put an earmark on him. Well, I roped him and, uh, chased him for a little while. And, um, then I finally missed my dally and the rope slipped out, out of my hands and the bull was heading South, you know? And so, um, me and my brothers kind of pulled up and we rode our horses back to the trailer. And my grandfather asked me where my rope was.

Evan: How old were you?

Sandy: I was probably maybe about 11, something like that.

Tarek: And about that age, 11 and he was out in the wilderness.

Sandy: Something like that. And, um, and so, um, he kind of looked at me and said, well, you need to go get your rope. And what he was saying was that you're not leaving that, that bull calf up out there, you know, with the rope on it. Um, number one, number two, you didn't finish the job. And so me and my brothers kind of looked at me like, okay, thanks for getting us into this. And we went and tracked that, um, that rope because it was clear drag marks down the draw. So we could track the, and we finally caught up with him. And we put an earmark on him and let him go. And I, we never, we never saw that again, but I got my rope. I got my rope back.

Tarek: Those are the lessons that live with you the rest of your life.

Sandy: Absolutely.

Tarek: And starts instilling the sense of perseverance and never quit attitude. And, you know, we're going to obviously talk about the company here a little bit, but I imagine that there's, you know, some of that that still lingers through your, your day-to-day work life.

Evan: And he remembers it so vividly too. Now, 70 years later,

Shannon: Just to put perspective when, when he said, you know, go track down that maverick bull and get your rope. That's not like riding across the pasture to go find it and get your rope. No, it's deep ravines and mountains and rocks. And you got to find them and those cattle are really good at, you'll see it one second. And then it ducks behind a brush and you can't find it. So it was not easy task. I'm sure to go find that rope.

Tarek: When you said how important it is to be one with your horse, what does that mean? Describe that to people? What does it mean to be one with your horse? So, and what was that relation? What was the name of your horse? What was the relationship like?

Sandy: Well, my number one, when I was growing up was Ghost. Ghost was a phenomenal horse, beautiful white quarter horse. He came off of some of the breeding out of the race horses that my grandfather had. He used to race quite a few horses in Ruidoso. But my horse Ghost came out of that breeding and he was, he was multi-talented. You could head on him, heel off of him, rope calves, do it all. And he and I were very much in sync. He took care of me as much as I took care of him. And he went the only horse I had. We tried to do our best to raise all of our, train all of our horses to be respectful of us while at the same time, teaching them and them teaching us about working cattle, about how far to go around them, about how you hold them, how you, we didn't try. So there, there's, you know, some people will try to force working with cattle. My grandfather taught me that you got to kind of be one with your, your horse and the cattle. You got to be two steps ahead of them. Their thought process, where are they going? What are they doing? And how do you maintain calmness when you're working with them? Despite having a very small, relatively speaking, not a huge herd of cattle over a very large territory, they weren't wild. They weren't wild because when we worked with them, we always worked in a very calm manner. And that includes that. It was paramount that our horses were calm and that we were in sync with them. So we weren't fighting our horses, creating chaos and you know, making more work and trouble for ourselves in our livestock than was necessary.

Tarek: So Shannon, you moved from Michigan. What age were you when you came down with your dad?

Shannon: I was 13.

Tarek: You were 13. And what was that experience like moving to Texas? And now being around animals, had you been around animals before at all?

Shannon: Or so when we were in Michigan, we were in a rural area. So, um, we weren't on a ranch, but, um, I was very comfortable with animals. And so it was a pretty easy transition. Um, my sister and I, for whatever reason, we always have been, um, really students of nature. And so that was just a lifestyle that we always grew up with, was learning about nature. It was fostered by my parents providing us with tons of information and literature and a desire to learn. And so when we came down here and we started, we got into cattle and horses and all of that, it was a pretty easy transition because, um, we always had been involved with animals, but, um, it's a little bit of a different world for sure. You know, you, you actually get in the thick of it and Sandy's right. That relationship that you have with horses is, um, it's can be a really good one. You're you're as dependent on the horses, the horses on you. And when you have a good trained horse, um, you're not really commanding it, what to do. It's, it's your partner. And so when you're out there working cattle, um, your horse is wanting to work cattle just as much as you. And so it's, um, it's a, it's a really cool lifestyle to grow up in. It's, it teaches you a lot and a lot of different areas.

Tarek: My daughters are completely horse crazy. You know, you walk in their bedroom, there's pictures of horses everywhere. They're with the horses all day, every day. Um, was, did you have a similar experience? You know, a 13 year old girl now around horses and spending a lot of time out there. What was that for you?

Shannon: Like, Oh, I mean there's good days and there's bad days. So there's, there's all the days where you're out, um, you know, in your pajamas fixing a fence and, um, you know, rain or heat or whatever the situation. Um, but yeah, um, animals, the horses, it's just easy to bond with them. And we have a little bit different situation in that Sandy is much more of a competitor on horses. And I didn't really compete, but I just rode because I loved it. And you know, road trails and, um, you know, dabbled in working with, you know, cattle with the horses, but a little bit different, uh, upbringing as far as the competition factor.

Tarek: So Sandy, um, you, as you kind of go through your teens and you're starting to prepare, start thinking about the next wave of your life. Um, I know that you spent the majority of your career in engineering. How did that come about?

Sandy: Um, well I was, um, always kind of inclined to, uh, to be more mathematically minded, I guess. I did pretty well in the sciences and so forth in high school in Marfa. To do that. But so, um, and, and, and my father was a pilot. And so I decided that, you know, I wanted to maybe go into aerospace engineering, maybe be a pilot, all these things. So, um, uh, I went to University of Arizona and studied aerospace engineering for, uh, a couple of years. And then, um, and I realized that, um, that was a little far fetched for me. I wanted to come back to Texas. And so, um, spent a semester at Saul Ross before I transferred to A&M and ended up in civil engineering. And, um, that's what I got my degree in. That's what I made a career of.

Tarek: And, um, how do we get from civil engineering to your own company and, you know, the, the, the rodeo space, the, the roping space, you know, the, all of the training equipment that you've developed, that's a big, big jump from civil engineering to product engineering.

Sandy: So, um, after I graduated, so throughout, um, college, um, I, uh, continued to compete. Um, my, my younger brother, uh, came went to A&M also. And so we competed on the rodeo team.

Tarek: And, uh, after I graduated, um, by the way, shout out to Texas A&M rodeo. We're a sponsor of those guys. We love, we love A&M rodeo.

Sandy: For sure. We also sponsor Texas A&M rodeo, obviously. Um, and, uh, and so after I graduated, I wanted to continue roping, but it was, it wasn't easy working in the middle of Houston. Um, you know, I had white collar job and, um, then trying to, you know, compete on the weekends. And so my skill level kind of went down hill a little bit, kind of frustrating. I was trying, wasn't really getting to practice as much. And so anyway, just as an engineer, um, I started to thinking at some point, maybe there's a way to make my equipment better to compensate for some of my own personal shortcomings. And, and there were, um, things in the industry that had kind of sparked my attention or interest that said, you know, people keep talking about this aspect. Why don't you, you know, and more specifically, I'm talking about adjustments to Lariat ropes. And so I created, invented a way to, um, what I thought felt was improvements to, uh, Lariat ropes. And, um, I decided to figure out how to try to make it a reality and turn it into a business.

Evan: So when you did that, did you, when you were first making the rope and when you were designing it, were you thinking like, this is just going to make my life easier? Or at that time, did you have an idea of a business that early?

Sandy: Um, probably a little bit of both. I thought, you know, if I can develop something that works for me, then why couldn't I, you know, um, figure out a way to produce it in a manner that could be distributed to the masses. Um, and so that's, that's kind of how the business started. Unfortunately, it was, um, it was kind of a highly customized, um, situation where, you know, ropers, um, have their individual styles of, of roping. And so, um, it was more like a set of golf clubs, um, for ropes, doesn't really fly with ropers and it's hard to inventory and stock and too many skews. I gained a newfound respect for companies like, uh, um, classic ropes and, uh, and cactus ropes and those that have spent years, um, perfecting, uh, their, their business and their product for sure.

Tarek: And, um, the, the years, what year is this?

Sandy: This was in the, in the 2006, seven timeframe, when I really kind of started to show some serious interest in that.

Tarek: So, you know, and I actually started a company in 2006 as well. And my background similar to yours is engineering. It was an electrical engineer. And, um, one of the things that I found about starting a company is that there's so much involved with building a business that you, you, you just have no exposure to, um, from finance to building websites, to marketing, to, you know, inventory management and accounting and all of the things that go into building a business. How much of that, you know, did you have kind of going into starting the business and how much of it was just sort of learning on the job?

Sandy: Um, it, most of it was, um, figure it out. Um, and, uh, uh, I mean, I had experience in, in managing clients in the business side of, uh, of development projects and things through my, through my career. But as far as like the logistics of, um, you know, uh, finding sourcing products and, um, and testing and, uh, and then the managing of the, of the business, the, um, at one point I, I had an employer to manage in the pit. Not all that was just figuring it out.

Tarek: Yeah.

Sandy: It's like, and really the marketing aspect of it was, um, the, the, the bigger challenge when you, I'm an engineer, right? So you only got one side of the brain that works. So to try to relate to people, to the masses on a different, uh, level and not try to sell them that your product is better is, is engineered better. Can't sell. So I had to kind of figure out.

Tarek: What did you learn about marketing? Well, what has worked, what worked and what didn't work for you?

Sandy: Um, well pain, uh, or working with professionals that don't really can't don't really get behind your product is not a recipe for, for success.

Tarek: Or even necessarily understand your, your, your client base. Cause your client base is a very unique client base and you either understand it or you don't.

Sandy: So it did take me a while because like I said, I, I kind of developed what I was doing off of, uh, out of my own interests, if you will. And then trying to push that into the market where I w I didn't listen enough. So it really taught me that you need to just listen to what the market is asking for and, uh, and respond to that. And, um, and it'd be a much, um, smoother, uh, smoother road.

Evan: How did you do that? Did you have like a mentor? Was it just straight trial and error? Were you searching out different avenues to kind of get that knowledge and get that wisdom?

Sandy: Um, well, um, I didn't really gather it until Shannon and I ended up, um, partnering together. Um, I had, you know, some additional products, an additional product that, um, during the recession was still, um, selling. And so, um, you know, 2011 is when I ran out of money, uh, essentially and realized that, you know, that I, I hadn't approached the, my first venture and entrepreneurship, the right way in order to have the right product. Um, but I learned from that. I developed products that, uh, I started developing products that were, um, in high demand that didn't require marketing because there was a, a demand for it already, but I didn't have the money or the time to put into it. And fortunately I met Shannon and, um, and she, um, helped, uh, you know, push the, that's about the time the 7k Roping, um, was created the name and the brand was created and, uh, and then it progressed.

Shannon: Well, the brand 7k had been around forever since you were born. But yes, as far as the brand of a product.

Sandy: Um, so if you know, we, we say that, you know, we were created by the brand. We didn't create the brand. We made the logo. It's pretty cool. But the brand, you know, the background that we've sat here and discussed is a, is a culmination of, you know, that first branding iron, um, that, uh, my parents, um, gave me in, in the brand that they put on my cattle, my cow herd. And, uh, and then the experiences that I gained trying to raise that herd and, um, impart those same values and raising that herd that my grandparents and my father taught me on to our children. And so it all, you know, culminated in, in the timing, the timing was critical. You know, it's like, maybe it was the right, it was written, uh, in the files that, um, you're going to start a business when they're in the recession and it's going to fail and you're going to learn. And then you're going to find somebody and you're going to see the way in a different light. And you're going to find your help and your partner that'll turn your next venture into success.

Tarek: We've we've spoken with many successful people on, on this program. And it consistently, the theme is failure way to the top and that, that trial and error and, and the willingness to take a risk and to fail and to try again. And, you know, to fail. And, you know, I think the, um, you know, anybody that says that starting a company, you know, is easy, is, is completely out of their mind. You, you mentioned, you touched on something that I think is really important. And for all the would be entrepreneurs that are listening to the program, I often say cash is the oxygen of the business. Then if you run out of cash and you run out of oxygen, the business dies. And what a lot of people don't anticipate. And I certainly didn't anticipate with, with the very first t-shirt company that I started is that you can, you can be very successful, you know, building inventory and selling your inventory. But oftentimes with net 30 or net 60 terms, you're, you're fronting the cash and waiting for, you know, those receivables to come in. And the bigger and the faster that your company grows, the more cash that the company demands. And so trying to anticipate or understand that the cash needs of the company, um, is just so fundamentally important. So that, that feeling of, well, I kind of ran out of cash is like, yeah, everybody gets that feeling, especially successful companies because your, your company is outrunning your cash position at that point. Um, but I am interested. It was, was there a breakthrough product for you that was really a turning point that really caught the attention of, of people in the industry?

Sandy: Um, yeah, well, it's been a progression of products that, um, um, as, um, Shannon and I have worked on this system, the system has gained more and more respect as being all encompassing for a broad spectrum of novice ropers, all the way up to the professionals that it's like, okay, you're, you're not a, when I started the business, I was a one trick pony. When I said I had too much cash, I think that's often a problem with people that start companies is having money that you can burn through because you don't have the respect for the cash management and you don't let the business grow itself. You can pay for marketing, you can pay for to hire people to do a job that you should probably be doing yourself. You can do all these things until you don't have the cash anymore. And it's like, huh, well, I would have had the cash if I had been, if that had been successful. Right. So how do you do it next time? Where it's successful? Well, you grow smart and Shannon can elaborate on this and the progression of our products because that's been a, it's been a well thought out process.

Shannon: So one thing I want to address is the, um, the word failure, the ropes. Um, truly it wasn't a failure. It just was not a really a sustainable business venture just because we still have people calling us for those ropes. It was a great product. It's patented technology that Sandy patented. It's, it was a great product and we still have a demand, but because it was so customized, I mean, I would spend a half hour on the phone with a person talking about how do you rope? How tall are you? How big a loop do you swing? Do you feed your loop? And how, what kind of rope do you like in your hand? And so, um, the, the profit just wasn't there to sustain a business. And so really one of the other products right early on was the steer roping dummy. Um, um, there's a great design, realistic. Um, we had manufacturing, you know, down. And, um, that's kind of really the first part of what our system now, the Something Steer Total Training System, the rope, Something Total Training System. Um, that was the beginning of that. And as far as, um, marketing, we did next to none because, um, when they say Gorilla Marketing, um, that's what, that's what we had. We had great product and we had great customer service and truly, um, I love our customer base. I spend a lot of time talking to them because I, we just, I really enjoy hearing their stories and, and, you know, hearing about how they're advancing their training or they've bought this for their son or their daughter. Um, so our business really grew on a great product and great customer service and they did the marketing for us. And so that's really was the beginning of everything we are now is, um, our customers spreading the word.

Tarek: Shannon, can you talk about the system? Um, you've referenced this training system and help me understand what are all the components that go into a training system. So as we've discussed, I have horses, but we don't do any roping. If I wanted to teach my son how to be a roper, what would you recommend?

Shannon: So one thing that's unique about our product line is that it is component based. Um, there's not a one size fits all, you know, your family's different than my family, different than another family of what we, what our training goals are. And so there's a lot of products on the market that, um, they're great for, you know, someone who's going to do team roping or someone who's advanced or someone who's a novice or someone who wants to do calf roping. Our system is component based. And so based on what your training goals are, are you trying to train your horses? Are you, is your son just starting out? Are you been there, done that, you know, want to get in some more practice. You can build your system with, with our products, um, for what you need. So it consists of the steer dummy, the calf dummy, um, the steer sled, the calf sled, both the steer and the calf fit on both of those. Um, we have the horse that shoots out, um, a sled from underneath. You can put the calf and the steer on that. And, um, all of those products are completely adjustable for easy to hard, uh, depending on what your practice goals are. And, um, they're realistic. So it, when you're practicing, it's as close as you can practice to live cattle. Um, and they're affordable. We try to keep our prices as low as possible. So, um, it really is a unique system. So whatever the goals are of a family or a roper, um, they can tailor the system, build it one piece at a time. You know, maybe you're just getting started in it. And it's like, ah, I'm not sure. Let me just get a dummy so I can practice roping. And then it's like, Hey, I kind of got an addiction thing. You know, maybe I'll get a sled. And so you can buy it one piece at a time and then build it as the interest or the need progresses.

Tarek: So, you know, we, we go to a lot of rodeos, we sponsor a lot of rodeos and there, there's one activity that is just, it's, it's almost like magic to me. It's the healing when, when, when the guy's roping and getting the heel of the cattle. And, uh, and it's almost like, I don't understand how the rope even gets underneath the feet and, and, you know, why do you think I tried to develop a rope with more weight in the day? Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

Sandy: Healing is the most challenging and most rewarding. It it's, I'm not a golfer, but I, you know, see the frustration in people when they don't swing a golf club or hit the ball as well as they know that they can or have in the past. Um, healing is the same thing. It's like, you can rope a steer so beautifully by two feet and then tell yourself, I'm just going to do that every time you're, you're about to miss five in a row. And you're like, why the heck isn't my tip getting through? You know, that's kind of the background. Um, but I do want to, I do want to go back to answer your question on that product.

Tarek: Okay.

Sandy: Because when you talk about, okay, that my background, the engineering, the ranch where it all collided, it kind of collided a little bit with the ropes, but really when I developed the, this initial, the Something Steered Ground Roping Heading Dummy, um, you know, I designed that in cat. I had experience in, in CAD and then, um, had gained some experience in, um, sourcing, um, manufacturing and, and so forth. And so, and as Shannon said, the Gorilla Marketing, we were literally selling on Facebook and then, uh, or, uh, Facebook wasn't even on Craigslist. We were selling on Craigslist. Yeah. We were still, we sold a lot. We sold a lot on Craigslist.

Tarek: You're joking.

Sandy: No, we sold a lot on Craigslist.

Shannon: So let me believe it or not, my mother, who's, I won't say her age, but she's older. She was our Craigslist person. And so she would just sit at home and she would post like, you know, she'd have a goal of posting like 20 posts every day, you know, in different cities, um, on Craigslist.

Sandy: And you had, and you had to learn how to avoid, um, getting blacklisted by appearing to be a commercial. You know, there was a time where if you look like you were a business posting, then you would get kicked off at Craigslist. So we had to be very creative because we were selling in, you know, Phoenix and, uh, the California markets and sh in shipping all over. And then, and then Amazon came along.

Shannon: Well, in Amazon, I will pat myself on the back. I was the first, um, one in our industry, truthfully of roping products to figure out how to get a UPC codes and to put it on. Cause you had to have all of these codes to get it on Amazon. And you know, you talk about experience and how do you know, we just figure stuff out and we just, you know, we don't know how to do something. Um, talk to someone, you know, gain knowledge somewhere, figure it out. Anyway, I figured out how to do that. And I was the first one to get those type of products on Amazon. And now everybody's on Amazon, but, um, yeah, that's kind of where it started.

Tarek: It's one of the character traits that is, um, very consistent among those that grow up on ranches is you just gotta figure it out. We were talking to Derek Ratliff, one of these podcasts, so you just gotta figure it out cause you're in the middle of nowhere and the thing is broken. You gotta figure it out. And it just develops an attitude. It can do a attitude of, um, yeah, just, just growing through trial and error. And, uh, so around what year was this? Uh, where you, where you're starting to get a Craigslist Amazon thing.

Sandy: 13. Yeah. 13, 14, 15. It was like 13.

Tarek: And this is, this is really the timeframe where it's the launchpad for the company. Like you're building the base. You talk about Gorilla Marketing, you're building a client base. I'm sure there's loads of word, word of mouth, you know, from, from one group to another. And now the company is starting to grow.

Shannon: Exactly.

Tarek: And how many people did you have at that time? It was your mom and the two of you.

Sandy: So it was just us. It was really just Shannon. I had my full time day job, but I mean, and kids that were helping and we had, you know, Buddy and Hannah's, um, still at home and Cole and they would, um, pack, um, orders and, uh, and help with, so even, so when, um,

Shannon: we were so small time that even with the steer dummies, um, we'd get in orders and then I'd go to, um, where the steers were stored, the manufacturer and, um, go pick up like three at a time. And then my son, he was Little Buddy. That's what we call him. We'd go to the UPS store, sit on the sidewalk, tape the boxes, put the steers in it, shove them and we'd like shove them in the UPS store. And then that was our shipping system at first. And then it got to where we're picking up like 10 at a time. And then we're getting big now.

Sandy: He has a suburb. So when we, yeah. So when we, when we, when we got together, I told her, I said, we're probably not going to sell too many of these dummies, but I don't know. We'll sell a few. So get some boxes.

Shannon: Well, yeah. He said, these are kind of heavy, but you probably won't sell many of these. And we're doing the ropes at the same time. And it's like, yeah, these ropes are really not, we're not going to kill it. Making $20 on a rope, you know, or yeah. So I could see these steers. It's like, this is kind of like, this is kind of a sweet spot because there's next to nothing to do with these. We stick them in a box. We mail them out there. People love them. We don't get returns. They're just awesome. And so, yeah, we just, it's like, let's push these more. And so we started pushing that and where we have it, we see it as a whole company now at first. I mean, it was a product.

Tarek: Yeah.

Shannon: It was a product that we, you know, Sandy created more products to go with. And suddenly we have this full product line and a full company. But at that time it was, you know, sitting on UPS sidewalk and seven boxes in the door.

Evan: So did y'all have like inventory in the garage? I mean, was everything just done out of the house?

Shannon: We would have, yeah, it was done out of the house, but we would have a little bit. But, um, you know, the, the sales were coming in slowly, but steadily and then increasing. And so what we started to say is I have, uh, I had an Excursion, Ford Excursion, and, um, I figured out you can get 11 of those suckers.

Sandy: And then I think I've got a 13th.

Tarek: Does that count the roof?

Shannon: So we were getting pretty big time when I'd fill up the Excursion. And then it got to where, all right, I'm going to pull my horse trailer. Now I could get like 40 in there. And that was like, we're really taking a risk because talk about a cashflow. We're, we're really, um, we are pretty strategic and I feel like wise with our cash cashflow. So, um, you know, we would inventory slowly and gradually and as needed. And, you know, buy in 40 at a time, that was an investment. And, um, but now, I mean, now we have a 40 foot trailer stacked high and we have to, we have to fill that up just continually. And as soon as it gets there, it's sold.

Tarek: So, so at this, at this point in time, you were just direct to consumer, correct? You, you weren't doing any, any B2B kind of stuff.

Sandy: We weren't retail yet. And, and to like, you're still probably curious, like where were we, where were you doing this? So we have a horse barn in the, um, you know, back of our, uh, acreage. And, um, over time, our horses got kicked out of the horse barn. There was an overhang, right? Like get some shade at least. But, um, basically our business, um, took over the, the horse barn. Um, and that's where we've, um, I've been doing things for a long time until we have our, uh, plans approved for our new headquarters that we're, um, going to be building in the very near future.

Tarek: And was every order coming in at that point? Was it almost like a little dopamine hit for you?

Shannon: Like, Oh yeah.

Tarek: You're the bell ring.

Shannon: Oh, there was no bell at that time. There was no Shopify.

Sandy: She would just call me. We sold something.

Shannon: Did you see that? We sold another steer, a blue one.

Tarek: Um, was there a real turning point for the business? So you have the slow and steady growth and you're going from, you know, 10 to 12 and now 40 and you get in the trailer. And, but, but was there, was there a turning point where things really changed for you or was it just slow and steady all the way?

Shannon: It was somewhat slow and steady, but, um, the next big product was the, um, steer sled that went with the steer. And so, um, that took, took it to a whole nother level of training and a whole nother market. Um, and so that took us several years to really perfect that and get the manufacturing down on that. Um, but that was probably the turning point.

Sandy: So that product, when we talk about being one with your horse and, and, um, being, uh, you know, part of a team, I mean rodeo industry. So it's, it's not just the competitive events and aspects of it, but the businesses that we deal with, um, the, the word team is just a common theme, um, throughout the industry. Not like it's not that way in and out, but in, in the Western and rodeo tight knit world, where you see these professionals helping each other out in the roping box when they're competing for against each other for $50,000 for a six or eight second run or something like that. It's just, it's just really cool. Well, it's kind of the same thing, you know, the teaming aspect with, with your horse and your team rope and a partner. Um, our steer sled was the first that was really designed for complete training where, um, you know, two ropers can actually, um, rope the device, the machine together, um, stretch it, turn it, face it. And it, you know, to the best you can with the mechanical equipment, simulate a run in and a family can work with the parents, with their grandparent, with their grandchild, you know, actually ride their horses together, work and it's, and it's kind of slows things down. It's very interactive. And I think that product, um, gained its place in the market and people that really wanted something different that they could actually not necessarily competitors, even just people that wanted something else to do with their horse in terms of training and so forth. Um, they had an appreciation for our product. And so that product kind of gave us the, um, confidence to continue, um, with additional products moving forward.

Shannon: And one thing about our products, um, because Sandy is a really good engineer, they are all engineered to break down into boxes. So a lot of other ones on the market when they're delivered, it's on a pallet. It's huge. Uh, you get it in the arena, it's lives and dies. There never goes anywhere cause it's so heavy. Um, and so big, um, ours break down into boxes. So that gave us an edge of shipping straight to customers cause we could ship it really inexpensively. Um, so that's, that's a, that was a major advantage when we started with the sled because people, customers weren't looking at spending $500 on shipping. It was like a hundred dollars for the whole thing, you know? And so that was a big turning point.

Sandy: Plus, you know, once again, going back to trying to appeal to the masses, even the, even the youngest of, of, uh, of new aspiring, um, rope ropers, uh, and rodeo contestants, uh, you know, we wanted kids to be able to use their equipment, haul it around. Um, and so, um, we kind of, we designed our stuff just to be more portable in, in general.

Tarek: That's a really big deal actually. I mean, that's a really big logistics.

Shannon: Logistics will make or break a business. So the fact that we, that Sandy had the foresight to make products break down into boxes. Um, that's key.

Tarek: So Sandy, you were saying earlier that, you know, when you, when you first started the business, you know, you're an engineer, so you're using one side of your brain. So is, is Shannon sort of the other side of your brain in the business?

Sandy: Oh, um, absolutely. Um, we, uh, we work really well, well together. And, um, and she, uh, I'll be honest with you. I, I like to sell how smart I am sometimes like, Oh yeah, you're so cool. You did this. And she's like, nobody wants to hear about that, man. Nobody cares, right? All they care about all what people want to know is, is it going to make my life better? Is it going to help me, you know, be, be better at what I'm trying to, um, accomplish or, you know, have more fun with my family, have a, uh, more fun training session with my horse. Is it, what's it gonna. And so that kind of got me thinking, the more I hung out with, with her, with Shannon and, and listened to her thoughts on, um, listening to customers and relating to them more importantly, it's like, yeah, you know what, that's really what it's about. So, you know, when you're, when we're developing these products, think about the, the interactive element of it and, um, and, and how to sell a fun experience or a positive interaction as opposed to, uh, Oh, that's so cool.

Tarek: Yeah. Well, Shannon, so what have, I mean, this is, was, is this the first business that, that you've started essentially, or been involved in the first business? So, so what are the, what are the learnings? What, what's the number one piece of advice you would give to somebody starting a business? Is it the customer piece?

Shannon: Well, there's a couple of different things. One is, um, yes, pay attention to your customers and truly care about your customers. Um, um, I've spent, and I still do spend, um, countless hours just talking to customers, hearing their stories, and it's not because I'm trying to make a sale. It's because I, I truly am interested. Um, so it's that, um, and then it's also, um, don't think that that you're at a roadblock and there's nowhere to go. There's usually always a solution. And so you might have to turn over a few more rocks or think outside the box as they might say. Um, but there's solutions out there, whether it's logistics, whether it's manufacturing, whether it's developing the products. Um, there's so many solutions out there. Just don't be afraid to find them.

Tarek: That's great advice. What is the business like today? Um, give us, give us a sense for what your, uh, distribution is like. You have, obviously have a great website. Um, you're, you're active on social media. Do you now also sell to other companies? What does that all look like?

Shannon: So for a long time, um, we started gradually as we were having success, having, uh, dealers and stores contact us like, Hey, can we be a dealer for you? And, um, we didn't allow it for a long time because we really wanted to develop the product. We wanted to develop awareness of the brand. We wanted to make sure that 7k was being represented in the manner that we would want it to be.

Sandy: And so, um, and we actually had decent cashflow because we were selling at retail.

Shannon: Yeah.

Evan: It's higher margin.

Sandy: The margins were better.

Shannon: Um, so anyway, continue, but you know, it's, it's hard to turn your baby over to other people and trust them. And so gradually we got to the place. It's like, okay, we had some, uh, key dealers that were interested. And then, and so we, okay, let's start this aspect of our company. And so we started into the, um, with dealerships and, um, that has grown. And so it started to be like, maybe, you know, okay, we're 75% retail, 25% wholesale. And then it got to be, you know, okay, we're about 50, 50 now. And then we had to change our mindset because it was like, okay, we can definitely see that we are transitioning more now to, um, having more and more dealers. And it's not that we still sell retail and we still are connected with retail customers. And, um, but our dealer network has grown, um, huge. We have dealers, uh, all over the world, truthfully, not even just, uh, in the United States.

Tarek: Has that been a big area of expansion for you as international?

Shannon: Well, our Canadian market has been huge. We sell a lot in Canada. There's a whole lot of Western world in Canada.

Tarek: Calgary Stampede is huge.

Shannon: Oh yeah. Um, Australia, New Zealand, um, Costa Rica, or we have a dealer in Costa Rica. We're told that, um, we are known as the Costa Rican roping dummy. So yeah, that's cool. And the Netherlands, the Netherlands really, we have a dealer in the Netherlands and, um, they don't do just a lot of roping in the Netherlands. Um, but they came and they wanted to sell the products. So they don't sell just a ton, but they do sell. And, um, we have one product that's, it's, um, a dummy on wheels and it shoots out of a shoot. And so you rope it from your feet and it's a whole lot of fun for whether you're a roper or you're just a kid or adult or just recreation. And so they actually travel with that and we'll see video on social media and they'll be in Italy at the European Futurity and they have it set up. And the judges, when they're not judging, they're out there roping. It's kind of cool to see.

Evan: You said it, you said it earlier about like, you know, you're selling an experience and I'm sitting over here, like never done any of this in my life, but it sounds like.

Tarek: I was just thinking the same thing. I'm like, you already got accustomed to this. Instead of cornhole, I want to be roping some dummies.

Evan: It goes out of a shoot and I'm like, Oh yeah.

Sandy: So it's, it's some pretty, pretty fun stuff.

Evan: It sounds like a heck of an experience.

Sandy: I tell you, I mentioned timing, you know, timing has a lot to do with the, the, the timing of when I, you know, started the business and then timing, get back in engineering, timing when we became partners, timing of developing the first couple of products. But really one of the, one of the big boosts for us was the timing of the progression of breakaway roping as an event in Rodeo. So I don't know if y'all, how familiar you are with that, but over the last five plus years it's really taken off and breakaway has become a, now a mainstay event in professional rodeo. And and really Martha Angeloni is a young lady that we, that we sponsor that is a world champion. And she, you know, I spoke to her and she was so excited and it's been such a great ambassador for us along with Riley Webb and some of the others that will probably shout out to Riley.

Tarek: Riley, I'm coming for you. You're getting on this podcast.

Sandy: We've missed each other a few times, but, but that, so when we developed, so we developed the calf ground roping dummy, the something calf around the same time that breakaway roping really started to take off. And that further gave us the, the confidence to invest in the, the Something Horse, which is the you know, training tool for team ropers and calf ropers that has the option of a pneumatic system that pushes the calf out on a rolling sled. And and so just continue to advance those interactive elements of our training system.

Tarek: That's super exciting. I was reading before this podcast about the product line Rope Something. And it sounds like there's a little bit of a story behind that name. Do you want to talk about that?

Sandy: So there, there, there is, I have fond memories of Something. So Something was a so I mentioned earlier that my grandfather would import cattle from Mexico. Well, and my dad would fly him around to ranches in Mexico and in the States. And I would jump in the airplane and go to, you know, these different stockyards and the different ranches and so forth. Well, this one load of cattle was unloading at one of my grandfather's stockyards. And me and my brothers, we would help sort the cattle, the calves when they would come off the truck down the ramp. And one cold morning and it was cold. My dad was wearing his blue jacket and a coat. And this calf came, this little bitty Brahama gray, Brahama looking calf weighed next to nothing came walking down the ramp. And he walked right over to my dad and started nibbling on his jacket. And my dad looked at me. He's like, I guess we're going to have to take this one home with us. I said, yeah, well we got to name him something. And he said, okay, we'll name it. So that's so art. So we raised Something. You can read the story online about Something. He was a, he was a household pet and a pest at the same time. He would break into the house. He would turn the water on. He never turned it off. He would eat grapes and chips and gummy bears. And so we kind of developed our, our mantra, our tagline around a Rope Something kids would ride him and he lived a long, happy life at the ranch.

Shannon: So yeah, we have, that's how we have the Something Steer and the Something Calf and Rope Something. And so that Something is, was a real, it was a real guy.

Sandy: He was a mascot of the Columbus stockyards in Southern New Mexico.

Evan: That's something right there.

Tarek: That's something.

Evan: That's something.

Tarek: So to this day it's 7k, a family business and we haven't mentioned it, but y'all are married.

Shannon: Right.

Tarek: And I'm curious, you know, what is it like working with your spouse and how many fights do you get into per week?

Shannon: No, it we both have pretty strong personalities. So there's times that we both are pretty sure about whatever the decision is, but we always come to some sort of understanding or compromise. It's kind of funny that during the day he's been off, he has an office, not the same place as mine. And so even though we're a married couple, we have teams meetings all throughout the day. It's like, it's a little different, but it's, it's awesome because we work together and our daughter, my daughter, Alicia, she works with us full time. So she's in the office every day. And her daughter, Gemma, she's four. She comes with her. So yeah, so she she's in the office with us. And there's times where I'm working on the computer at my desk and she has, she pulls up her chair on the other side of my desk and she lays out, she's learning to read. And so she lays out her school books and I'll be typing on the computer and then teaching her at the same time. So it's truly a family business.

Sandy: But yeah, it's a, it's, it's a, it's fun. It can be challenging at times. When she said work, usually how it ends up is she's right. Let's just be honest. It's the end of the day. But but no, we we we work well together. I mean you know we bounce a lot of ideas off of each other and we make our mark our marketing decisions. I think that we that we make together are kind of at this point now that our product line is somewhat mature, although we have several new products in the making and so forth. But you know, for instance, we collectively made the decision to get into the goat tying business. We listened to our customers and found out that there's, there's a market here that needs to be filled. We didn't realize how large of a demand that market was, but all the products to this, up to this one, we had developed ourselves. And then Shannon actually came, I think it was Alicia that really caught an initial wind of the, of the idea of this company that might be for sale, Goaty. And so we looked into it and decided that, yeah, you know what, that's probably fits pretty well in line with our business model. It's a very, it's a very well put together product. And it's engineered well.

Shannon: So it has a similar story to ours and that's why it kind of aligned as every product we sell our own creations. And we've always said that. But then this lady contacted us and the Goaty is the goat tying dummy. And her, she's, she's a little bit older now. And her dad created a version of it when she was little, because there was no goat tying dummy. And so she always practiced with that. She became really a great goat tier. And years later, when she had a daughter, she pulled it out and said, you know, you should practice on this. Well, then she saw a need for it and figured out a way to manufacture it and started selling it. But she, she really didn't try to market it at all. So, or very little, but it was a great product. And so she contacted us and she said, I just, I just don't want to do this anymore, but I want it to go to a company with similar values. Cause it was just her and her husband, you know, doing this business. And so I said, well, you know, let me take a look at it. And I looked at it and I was like, I, I really think this would go well with our product line. And we didn't have a goat tying dummy, you know, it wasn't on our radar. It wasn't on our radar.

Tarek: This is your first corporate acquisition, another seminal moment in the history of the company.

Shannon: Exactly. So once we acquired it, I sent a e-blast out to our dealers and said, Hey, just so you know, we now have Goaty. Let me know. And within five minutes, my phone was ringing off the hook and it's like, I want five, I want 10. And it's like, we sold out of everything. Oh yeah.

Sandy: That was amazing.

Shannon: But we're, we're very appreciative that Cindy trusted us with the history of her product, because we want to carry on the legacy of her father who created that for her. And so we don't want to take away anything from that. And it's been a good merger with us. Not really an acquisition as much as just like merging the two products.

Tarek: Yeah. So where can people find you? What's your, what's your domain?

Shannon: We're at sevenkroping.com. We also have a spot on there that lists our dealers. So if they can look for a dealer near them, um, and are you on Instagram or Facebook? Oh yeah.

Sandy: We're on Facebook @ropesomething on Instagram. Yeah.

Shannon: Something on that rope, something on Instagram, 7k Roping on Facebook, YouTube, YouTube channel, YouTube channel.

Sandy: It has. So one thing we do like to do to support, um, our product line is put out informational, um, training videos, yeah. Training videos. Um, and, uh, and, um, you know, we're just general informational video and we have, you know, our, our, our pro team that I mentioned before is out there explaining the benefits of our, our products as well. Um, which they, they believe in. Um, I mean, so they contacted us at times ordered before the best ropers in the world are using your products. I mean, it's not just, they came to find our products is the, is what, it gives me pride in knowing that they've actually sent the best, some of the best ropers in the world have, have sought us out for the benefits of our, our products to train with and to put on their clinics with. They really appreciate, um, the value of our products in training the youth.

Tarek: Well, Sandy, Shannon, I mean, congratulations on all your success. Uh, just incredibly successful business, another great Texas company. And, uh, let's all go out there and, uh, Rope Something.

Evan: Can't wait to put my order in.

Tarek: Thank y'all.

Sandy: Thank you.